Re: Power Packages & Cost (Re: [BNW] The Hacker)

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

> >Again, I'm going from memory, but I thought the radar sense was a Trick
> >based off of Night-Vision, not an aspect of Sneak itself.  Granted, it's
>not
> >a very hard Trick to use to get radar sense (one success on Perception
> >check, right).
>
>You're absolutely right, its the Trick that gives you Radar Sense, but it's
>so easy to activate... I rarely go without it. There's no disadvantage to
>it, after all, and it doesn't 'go away' or anything.
> >
> >

I had wondered.  Still, the disadvantage of the Trick is that...well, you 
take it instead of something else.  While a Gunner is taking Bull's Eye and 
Extra Damage and Richochet and doesn't necessarily have to worry about 
taking Mercy and Find Weakness...the Sneak _has_ to take Radar Sense and 
"Blend In" (or whatever it's called) to take full advantage of his power 
package, and not get those General Tricks that could potentially prove very 
helpful.

> >Hmmm, see our previous discussion of the Sneak not necessarily being
> >under-powered, but potentially unviable in the typical player/group 
>dynamic
> >kind of situation.
>
>Yah, this is a valid concern.  I definitely have to be a lot more subtle 
>and
>inventive than Johnny Punchclock, the blaster. Or Stormfront the 
>gadgeteer..
>etc etc. And in a straight up fight, my best ability is basically not
>getting hit.

Actually, per the previous discussion, the "unviability" was more that the 
Sneak A) has to operate separately from the rest of the group for best 
effectiveness, and B) things he does to enhance his own viability mess up 
the rest of the group.  B is relevant here, because than the subtle 
inventive tactic that you've came up with for your Sneak screws over the 
rest of the player's characters.  Or invokes A, because your Sneak is off on 
your own.  If nobody objects, that's fine.  Typically, however, I've seen 
players get together as a group because...well, they want to play as a 
group.  The "Batman/loner" syndrome rarely goes over too well around here.  
Your mileage may vary.

> >Again, I'm going from memory (should have brought Ravaged Planet to work
> >today).  But...don't you lose the +10 as soon as you do anything
>action-wise
> >(move, shoot)?
>
>Yes, but I can line the shot up at my leisure. Think of "Dodge this!" from
>the Matrix...

In solo that's fine (see A above, though).  In group activities the battle 
could be over by the time you get those Aim benefits and take the shot.  
Plus the Sneak has no superior firepower, so his weapon isn't going to do 
much more damage for gaining a few turns worth of aiming bonuses.  Granted, 
that would be helpful if he took Extra damage or Bull's Eye.  But...oops, he 
had to take Radar Sense and Blend In just to pull off the tactic in the 
first place.

>Mea Culpa. Sorry, i'm partial to the package.. it's one of the few that's
>both useful in and out of combat.
>

If you like the package, fine.  I'm certainly not here to convince anybody 
that they should dislike something that they like.  Only that you're getting 
screwed.  :)

>  Yes, Sneak becomes cooler when you factor in the Tricks.  But _all_
> >Powers become cooler when you factor in Tricks.    If Sneak starts out
> >behind the other Powers, than even if Tricks raise it up at the same rate
> >that Tricks raise up other Powers, it still ends up behind, power-level
> >wise.
>
>I see your point. But consider this: how useful is Blaster out of combat?
>Not at all, right?

Depends on your Guide.  Blasters _can_ unearth debris and rescue people 
trapped, blast falling objects to save innocents, put out fires by blasting 
open fire hydrants and water tanks, seal earthquake fault lines (not very 
realistic, but a very comic bookish-kind of thing to do), etc.  Depends on 
how the Guide builds your adventures and how liberal he is within the 
Delta-level power of the game.  Triumph Inc. probably has Blasters, for 
instance - it seems unlikely they just hire them out for combats.

>Sneak is fairly useful in and out of combat, so it shouldn't be as good at
>either, should it?
>
>

Well, there's the rub, ain't it?  Obviously I feel it should be better, 
others feel it shoudln't.

> >> >So actually, a better arguement is that the Sneak is better in
>non-combat
> >> >situations.  However, again, he is only superior by one success over a
> >> >non-Sneak (and his one current Stealth-oriented Trick is a little 
>better
>
>True, but since it's an opposed roll, that's a pretty important one 
>success.
>

Ummm, no.  At it's heart, Stealth is either-or.  One success or ten 
successes, if you succeed they don't see you.  If you fail, they do.  Your 
Guide, of course, may give you more benefits for extra success, but none 
exist in the rules.  And we're discussing the rules, right?  Not what a 
Guide can or can't do on his own.

Sure a guaranteed one success (or plus 1) is good, no doubt about that.

> >And, ummm, as long as you don't subsequently do anything, right?  Or
> >wrong...?
>
>YOu're right. YOu have to stand stock-still. Thank god for sub-vocal radio
>mikes.

And how expensive are those?  :)

> >> >out_ a more powerful Power Package (page 172).  Does anyone really 
>think
> >> >that +5 Stealth + Nightvision was really so powerful (compared to, 
>say,
> >> >Blaster or Speedster or Bouncer, which have _no_ Quirks) that Sneak
> >>required
> >> >a Quirk?
>
>But can a speedster use his ability out of combat very much? A bouncer?

*looks through some 300+ issues of Flash comics*  Ummm, yes, I'd say a 
Speedster can do lot of non-combat stuff.  :) Although again, this is kinda 
dependent on your Guide.  Even simply strong characters like the Goliath and 
Bouncer can do stuff like rescues and all which require strength.  It all 
depends on the Guide, and to some degree the setting.  If you're Delta 
Warriors, then no, you're probably not going to get a lot of chances to 
strut your stuff in this manner.  On the other hand, Pax Delta probably does 
little else.
>   I've found the main concern to be getting bright shiny lights in
> >your face when you're _trying_ to use your heightened visions (i.e., when
> >the guard turns the spotlight in your direction).
>
>True...in that case, its a major owie. I think it would be for just about
>anyone, really.. but particularly bad for me. In that case... stand still,
>disappear, and wait for your vision to clear....
>

It is (or was) the major way I took advantage of the Quirk.  It's bad for 
anyone, but worse for the Sneak.

>But you're right, it is a quirk and it's a disadvantage... it can be
>lessened in severity, but frankly, I consider it to be more a roleplaying
>matter than anything else. A sneak is just plain uncomfortable in bright
>lights, it goes against his nature!
>

True enough.  And if they were wearing sun glasses to totally get around the 
Quirk, I'd probably still have them make Spirit rolls or what-not from time 
to time in critical situations to avoid panicking, twitching nervously, 
whatever.

---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

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