Re: Power Packages & Cost (Re: [BNW] The Hacker)

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

> >Sure, but the apparent problem is that while, say, a Gunner can match a
> >Sneak (by having an inherent +5 Shooting, and buy +5 Stealth and a pair 
>of
> >night-vission goggles), the Sneak doesn't match the Gunner because even 
>if
> >the Sneak takes +5 Shooting, he doesn't get +5 to initiative, and he has
>the
> >light-weakness quirk.
>
>Well, actually its a radar sense, which is better than night vision 
>goggles.

Again, I'm going from memory, but I thought the radar sense was a Trick 
based off of Night-Vision, not an aspect of Sneak itself.  Granted, it's not 
a very hard Trick to use to get radar sense (one success on Perception 
check, right).

Otherwise the light-sensitivity Quirk doesn't make much sense, if the _base_ 
Sneak ability is radar sense rather than inherent night vision.

Plus, if Radar Sense is the base power, what _is_ the Trick enhanced 
version?

I'm pretty sure Radar Sense is the Trick not the power itself.

>Here's how I use this trick in combat... throw some smoke grenades around.
>This gives me a natural ability to sneak around, impairs the vision of
>everyone else, and allows me to see perfectly given the radar-sense trick.

Hmmm, see our previous discussion of the Sneak not necessarily being 
under-powered, but potentially unviable in the typical player/group dynamic 
kind of situation.

>If I stand still, I get an additional +10 to Stealth, can see perfectly in
>the smoke filled environs, and can blast away at targets of opportunity 
>that
>have almost no chance of detecting me.
> >

Again, I'm going from memory (should have brought Ravaged Planet to work 
today).  But...don't you lose the +10 as soon as you do anything action-wise 
(move, shoot)?

> >Or to put it another way...yes, the Sneak has a skill-boost that is 
>useful
> >in combat, but he has only a very limited ability (via the appropriate
> >Trick) to make use of Stealth in a way that a non-Sneak character can do.
>
>A non-sneak character can't stand in plain sight and not be notice.
>A Sneak requires no cover, no concealment... just the will to not be seen.

But...if he loses that bonus when he does anything, how useful is that?  Not 
to say that it isn't useless at all (I've _never_ claimed that).

And...you're also citing Tricks (assuming I'm correct on the whole Night 
Vision vs. Radar Sense thing).  We were talking essentially about the basic 
power.  Yes, Sneak becomes cooler when you factor in the Tricks.  But _all_ 
Powers become cooler when you factor in Tricks.    If Sneak starts out 
behind the other Powers, than even if Tricks raise it up at the same rate 
that Tricks raise up other Powers, it still ends up behind, power-level 
wise.

> >So actually, a better arguement is that the Sneak is better in non-combat
> >situations.  However, again, he is only superior by one success over a
> >non-Sneak (and his one current Stealth-oriented Trick is a little better 
>-
>I
> >don't have it here in front of me).
>
>"in plain sight" allows a +10 to be Stealth with an extra success on a
>stealth roll, so long as someone isn't looking right at you when you
>disappear.
> >

And, ummm, as long as you don't subsequently do anything, right?  Or 
wrong...?

> >*shrug* The real problem to me is simply that the package seems
> >underpowered.  Either it should be +10 _with_ the Quirk, or +5 _without_
>the
> >Quirk.  We're told in the rulebook that Quirks should be used to _balance
> >out_ a more powerful Power Package (page 172).  Does anyone really think
> >that +5 Stealth + Nightvision was really so powerful (compared to, say,
> >Blaster or Speedster or Bouncer, which have _no_ Quirks) that Sneak
>required
> >a Quirk?
>
>Well, as a sneak, of course, i'm all for no-quirks. On the other hand, I 
>get
>to wear sunglasses all the time, which is cool in and of itself.
>

Hmmm.  While I'd be tempted to allow an inherent Quirk to be "bought off" 
with a simple purchase of a $0.50 piece of equipment (unless you're going 
for style) due to my own expressed concerns about balance...if I thought the 
package _was_ balanced as is, I wouldn't allow that.  Your Guide's opinion, 
or your opinion as a Guide, may vary, of course.  :)

Plus, of course, Blues Brothers and what-not to the contrary, wouldn't 
sunglasses penalize your character's vision (night-vision or otherwise) in 
darkness?  I've found the main concern to be getting bright shiny lights in 
your face when you're _trying_ to use your heightened visions (i.e., when 
the guard turns the spotlight in your direction).

>The Spirit of '76


---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com