Re: [WW] Weird Wars Problems - Savage Worlds - D20 Modern

["Cpt. Canuck" <canuck@superaje.com>]

Steven \"Conan\" Trustrum wrote:
> 
> At 07:32 PM 10/8/02 -0400, Cpt. Canuck you wrote:
> >should.  Non of your arguments hold water IMO.  The fact is though, that
> >it doesn't matter at this point.
> 
> Other than the fact that I'm currently writing a book that makes heavy use
> of flintlock firearms and knowing that were I to suggest what you want with
> regards to that material, a situation that is quite analogous to your

So you won't mention anything about the effect rain might have on them. 
A little too technical.  

This doesn't back up your arguments at all.  You said you only wanted
mechanics and that's why you don't want some gun information.

> >Hmmmm....  If the WW rulebook was just mechanics, it'd have been quite
> >small.  Perhaps by being that small they might think it wouldn't sell as
> >well.
> 
> What's there is building the story, plot, and atmosphere of the game. The

Its not mechanics though, which was your argument.

> Weird War 2 main book is not meant to replace a history lesson or give you
> all the information that you'll ever need to know about WWII. I seriously

No, but it gives you more than a brief overview of the war.  It's
actually a great tool for teaching about the war.  It has a lot of great
information and it is written simply.  

> doubt you could walk into a history class and use it as a basis for your
> participation in the class just like I seriously doubt that the writers at

Ohh, there'd be many there who knew less than what was in the book.  

> need to in order to run a WWII-based game!" A certain degree of
> foreknowledge and interest was assumed, I'm quite sure.

Why?  Does that mean only WW2 enthusiasts are allowed to play?  
 
> knowledge. The fact that you personally (addmitedly) don't know squat about
> firearms is irrelevant. Go read a book on the subject and let the rpg

No, I don't.  I've only ever fired a 12 gauge, .22, and 7mm Magnum.  My
experience with guns is pretty limited.  

> writers write rpg material, not technical manuals. A publishing company

I didn't realize a paragraph or two would be a technical manual for you.

> would annoy far more people by including such material than it would please

By your own admission you are annoyed by some RPG products and what
they've added (apparently the publisher wanted it).  I'll bet there
might be a few people who actually enjoyed it.  Thus your thoughts on
the publisher could be wrong.

> No it wasn't. Please don't put words into my mouth. My point was that you

You've been trying to stuff them into mine.

> only really need mechanics for the specific instance you'd proposed, that
> being WWII era weapons. I didn't say anything to the effect of "hey, give
> me the rules for the game but don't provide me with a simple time line or
> summary of the war's progress so that I can then take that encapsulation
> and develop a plot for my campaign." Then again, I don't want an entire

But surely you could get that information freely online or from a book,
which was part of your argument against gun info.

> If I needed to have a detailed understanding of every skill that appeared
> in a book, I wouldn't be able to play any sci-fi games because I've never
> been in space and don't know squat about spaceships, I wouldn't be able to

You're the one who's made this 'detailed.'  I just wanted a little extra
info.  Besides, flying in a spaceship wouldn't make you an expert on
them anyhow, but perhaps knowing where the navigation unit is might
help, or what fuel it uses...  Heaven forbid they actual put information
in an RPG.  

Even shooting a gun, doesn't make one an expert.  Nor do you need to be
to shoot it, but there are times when adjudicating a situation, that
knowing a little more about guns would be helpful.

> That's a different matter. You're talking about an rpg based on a
> once-popular tech-heavy wargame where the fan-base had already expressed an

Re-released by Wizkids in their MageKnight format.  

> interest in the fantastical technology. Also keeping in mind that
> Mechwarrior is 100% fantasy so there are absolutely no other resources  to

Sure, but there are technical manuals out there, and literature you
could read.  Why add it in the rulebooks.

> don't have to know squat about guns to be able to read the ammunition in
> the gun charts and understand that if you start with 30 bullets, fire 3,
> you now have 27 bullets.

Knowing how the gun loads can aid you.  Like knowing what a cylinder
is.  Sure most people know what magazines are.  All of this can be an
aid to role-playing as well.  Guys can get into the 'bolt-action' or
reloading.  Not that we'd want that.

I guess I wouldn't simply allow all ammo in the game interchangeable
with all guns in the game.  You might, I wouldn't.

> Sure they would, but you don't tailor a product for a "passing fancy" in a

Better to alienate anyone who isn't a fanatic about the subject then?

> >It's easy to learn history, information about the Generals, the
> >resistance, and the landscape of Europe in WW2, but actual gun usage is
> >not as easy.  Regardless, I see people who'd love to see more maps of
> >the war torn areas.  Screw them eh...  Let's write an adventure, but
> >we'll leave out all the why's and any information not mechanics
> >related.  You have the bad guy, it's not important why he's the bad
> 
> Gun material difficult to find? Go to google and type "proper gun use" and

Who said difficult?  The statement was that finding simple info on the
generals was easier.  

> something for free. Yes, it's that easy. As for the maps, again, you're
> comparing apples and oranges. Maps are directly relevant to how a Warmaster
> conducts a game, which is why maps in gaming have been a staple for as long

Yeah, and guns are not a staple of any RPG.  They have been around
though.  Knowing about guns is also relevant to the Warmaster and how he
runs the game... Unless you don't use guns, or they're all the exact
same.

Soooo, why did you reply so emphatically about this?  It wasn't as if
Pinnacle was going to go back in time and alter their books simply
because one fan had an opinion.  Not even bashing the books, but just
what would have made it perfect for them.  I wasn't even talking about
future supplements.  Farbeit that anyone doesn't have the exact tastes
that you do.  

Cap