Re: [pyrnet] Pyrs without Dwarf producing ancestors

[SovreignPyrs@aol.com]

In a message dated 12/31/00 9:04:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
lmweisser@olywa.net writes:

<< Of course,
 the hard reality is that he may never "find" that marker.  BTW, this
 person in Mark Neff who also does (did?) the work of finding a marker for
 dwarfism in Beagles. >>

Of course the marker may never be found, nor a test developed.  I think you 
have misunderstood a part of Beagle Dwarfism research.  No they have NOT 
found the genetic marker, I never said they did.  What I said was we formed a 
database to work around  genetic problems  of all kinds, not just dwarfism. 
We realized research  was going to take a long time.
In point of fact I just sent (6 months ago) more DNA on a CBS dwarf Beagle 
who is now 12 years old.  To my knowledge they have not found the marker in 
ANY breed.  
Dr Neff is studying Chinese Beagle Syndrome (What seems to be a different 
form of dwarfism) to see if the gene is similar to dwarfism as its occured 
previously).  No CBS is not exactly the same type of afflication as Pyrs.  
But Dwarfism itself is being studied in MI.  The club could not get MI 
interested in another form of dwarfism at this point in the research. We are 
tryng to figure out the relationship between CBS and dwarfism we had known up 
to that point.  CBS affects every nerve, muscle, tendon and ligament in the 
body, in addition to the dwarf characteristics.      

I think you will find that this is the same with Mals and Corgi's.  No marker 
has been found.  But test breedings have been done. Carriers identified, and 
data bases are set up in the meantime to help people get around the problems, 
the only way we can with out a test.  You must admit our only alternatives 
are not to breed at all, or breed blindly and we scared everytime a litter is 
born.  That tough on old breeders of many years, imagine the newcomers?  All 
I'm saying is that there has to be a better way, and I may not have all the 
answers.  What worked in Beags may not work in Pyrs, but its something to 
work with.
<
I think that's wonderful.  We are having some problem getting people to
come forward over the dwarf issue.  I wonder how willingly they would come
forward over the much more common problems such as patella luxation and
siezures? >
I think there are some who won't, and there are some who will, just like 
anything else.  But they soon figure out the database is something that gives 
them a lot of help.  Most people are converts the minute they have to go to 
that data base to find out about a problem they need help with.  Everyone as 
a breeder gets a surprise sometime they were not expecting.  When that very 
personal call  expressing shock goes through to Ada she is able to give them 
a great deal of insight as to where the problem (whatever problem) might be 
lying hidden in their pedigrees.  After 20 years there are many breeders and 
kennels who are no longer in existence, who have contributed their knowledge 
to this database.  Many wonderful breeders willed their personal breeding 
papers to the data base.  It would be no different in Pyrs.  I'm sure there 
are many wonderful people out there who have and will contribute much.

This question was asked of our Beaglers:  "How do you want to be remembered 
in our breeds hsitory?  Do you want to be the person remembered for 
singlehandedly passing on a certain disease through most of the breeds 
population with your top stud dog or brood bitch, and pretending no knowledge 
of anything?  Or do you want to be the person remembered for doing the most 
to combat the problem, by admitting to the database that so and so has 
produced whatever.  Thus making it knowledge to be used, so that those 
seriously risky breeding are not done.  Share the knowledge, and dilute the 
problem.  Hide the information, and trust me people find out anyway, nothing 
is truly secret.   

The people who have the litters with problems always tell someone anyway.  
Trust me 
If people spend a $1000 stud fee and get problems, people are going to hear 
about it.  Its human nature.  And no its not all the studs fault, which is 
the next thing I'll hear.  I realize that, thsi is an example only.  It could 
be a whole line we're talking about or whatever.
I have found is that full disclosure on whats in my lines up front either via 
the data base, or calling me directly has resulted in many friendships over 
the years.  And I have a great deal of respect for anyone who is up front 
with me.  I and many other breeders have found that the data base precludes a 
whole lot of lying about whats in the lines, because its there in black & 
white.  Someone else may have bought stock and turned up problems and 
reported it.   And actually I have found few breeders to be dishonest.  

And Linda I am not really all that good in explaining how Adas system works.  
But 20 years in teh same data base and I'm telling you a lot of things are 
possile.  No she can't give me absolute percentages on Epilepsy for instance. 
 But she can tell me that a line with early onset epilepsy (by one year) has 
a higher number of afflicteds than one where it shows up at three and there 
is only one dog for instance.  Every line carries epilepsy in our breed, my 
line has had two in 20 years with careful breeding.   In trying to bring in 
an outcross and avoid epilepsy, I brought dwarfism back.  My mistake, since I 
thought it was long gone.  Well guess what, those nasty little recessives, 
seem to love to pop back up in the 5th generation.
Many things lie dormant for awhile, hense Ada's value to me in saying OK, "I 
think we're getting a little heavy in this breeding with known epilepsy 
carriers," or  "how is your bitches Hips, I have a dysplastic turning  up in 
generation 4, but on the other hand there are no dwarfs taht I know of".  
This is but an example here.     

I can not give you perfection here.  I can only tell you that breeders have a 
great deal of faith in their very personal data base, and use it, and that it 
has indeed helped further our breed.

Sharon Hodgdon