In a message dated 99-08-09 09:25:45 EDT, you write: << What a story about the judge who didn't/doesn't know a pyr from a newfie! >> A number of years ago, friends of my parents went to the local dog show. When they got back, they proudly told my folks that they saw an "all black pyr". Mum didn't have the heart to tell them what they saw was really a newfie. Robyn