Re: [HOE] Doomsayers and pollution

[The Baron Samedi <baron11@netmcr.com>]

>>     Other than the fact that Doomsayers would see the Rad Shamans as using a
>>middle man, I really don't see all that much of a difference in how they view
>>raw radiation.
>
>I think what Rich was saying (and SW supports this, and I'd agree) that 
>there _is_ a difference in how they view radiation.  Doomsayers perceive 
>it as a monotheistic God-like force, while Shamans "know" it as a bunch of 
>little toxic rad spirits running around.
>
>The catch here is more that they _use_ it in (many, if not all instances) 
>the same way.  Which is where I disagreed with Rich.  A purple-rober 
>casting Nuke and getting, say, 5 raises is doing the "work" of the rad 
>spirits, even if the doomsayer doesn't believe it.  And presumably he 
>should attract a Guardian Spirit rad-type.

I would tend to agree.  However, unless I am mistaken, gravely, they cannot 
become Toxic Shamans and Doomsayers.
Still, my understanding is it is easy to get a Toxic Spirit, and I think 
Doomsayers could definitely pick one up, esp given they don't have any 
opposing spirits (Guardians Spirits, Loa, Browsers) to worry about.


>>     And considering how there are more Cult of Doomists than Rad Shamans, I
>>could easily see the rad shamans becoming a sub-sect.
>
>With Silas, IMO, but also what SW hints at, it's a matter of control.  He 
>doesn't want anyone tapping into the Glow in any way other then the way he 
>ordains. Having such a sub-sect would invalidate his own preachings, and 
>weaken his control of his army of mutants and rad-worshippers.
>
>The question to my mind is more the interaction between purple-robers and 
>Rad Shamans.  Given that Silas absolutely hates Rad Shamans, the book 
>saying that schismatic doomsayers are "a little more tolerant" (page 26) 
>makes it seem like they don't hate them quite as much but still quite a 
>bit It seems to me that the mild distrust engendered because rad shamans 
>can make themselves immune to Doomsayers miracles would be balanced by the 
>fact that a lot of purple-robers are going to pick up rad spirits.

True.  I would think, however, that if a Doomsayer were to fully embrace 
the little critter's whisperings, he would lose that Glow Faith in lieu of 
Toxic Shaman faith, and that could get ugly.  Still, I cannot see 
Doomsayers worshiping Toxic Spirits over the Glow.  I can see some forming 
Heresies relating to them (kinda like medieval angel worship)  But I think 
the strongest of those would lose their glow given powers with their old faith.

Bear in mind too, in the Game World, Toxic Spirits and Shamans have been 
around about 120 or so years LONGER then Doomsayers.  If they have had no 
more impact then this up to 2094, why now aside from the convient 
supplement?  Toxic Shamans are older news then Templars, Anti-Templars, 
Doomsayers of any Stripe, or Librarians, generally by over a century.  It 
*should* be more a question of "how have Doomsayers compelled Toxic Shamans 
to rethink their ideals?"

What I am getting at is there are major theological differences Cleansers 
want to see Radiation soaked up and GONE, Rad Spirits GONE.  This 
completely and utterly violates the beliefs of both the Cult and the 
Heretics.  Corrupters want to see pollution spread throught the world, 
which is slightly incidental to Doomsayers.  They re interested in Mutants, 
and Mutations, with Radiation as a vehicle and God.  I can see them getting 
along to a degree but they simply have different ends.



>The player (not unreasonably) has concluded that the rad spirit he has is 
>a _good_ aspect of the Glow.  And that since Rad Shamans call on similar 
>resources, and most often end up mutated to boot, they are just slightly 
>mislead Chosen followers of the Glow.

I can see it.

>It strikes me that there are several possible subplots here:
>
>1) As green-robed Doomsayers (not Doombringers) start to attract rad 
>spirits, does this start to form a schism within the Cult of Doom anyway?

Only question is the "as...start to attract"   They should have been, in 
Game World, before there were Doomsayers.


>2) Does Joan and the Mentors overcome their (somewhat feebly motivated, 
>IMO) distrust of rad shamans?

with two types of Rad Shamans with different goals who don't wear different 
robes, this can be tough.  This, more then anything else, probably contributes.


>3) Do the schismastics and rad spirits (at least the cleansers, and maybe 
>even more friendly corrupters) ally?

It could happen.  Especially given Sileas striking down each.


>4) Since the rad shamans have a different, but in some ways superior way 
>of calling upon the Glow (or whatever they call it, i.e., "Toxic 
>Spirits"), might not Joan look to augment her Doomsayers' abilities with 
>rad Guardian Spirits?

Depends on if she is more into
a) power
or
b) faith in the Glow.

Personally, I don't see TS as "superior".  Mainly because they make 
Backlash an art form, and still have Strain. ;-)

Not touching the sourcebook debate here.

TBS