Re: [HoE] Templar Gift - Impressions?

[PEGGoff@aol.com]

In a message dated Wed, 3 May 2000 10:14:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com> writes:

<< >From: PEGGoff@aol.com
>

>>Thanks for the input, to both you and Darrin.<<

Anytime!


>>Unfortunately, that seems to be a flaw in the HTH rules.  Other than 
background-type reasons rather than rule reasons (i.e., lack of bullets), 
there seems to be no reason to _ever_ go into HTH.<<

I really don't have time to get into serious discussion on this at the moment, but the HTH rules do depict what Shane and company wanted--a series of thrusts/parries/etc. that don't always connect. Rather than go into a complicated system of an attack and defense roll for each one, the HTH system is designed (and allows) a fighter with a high skill level to gain not only in likelihood of striking with a blow, but also in preventing one as well.

Without another roll.

>Guns have things like multiple attacks; 

Plain and simple, guns are better than knives. That's all there is to it. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. ;-)

>>To expand upon a point I noted in my response to Darrin, the Gift has kind 
of evolved in response to the fact that Templars (and HTH fighters in 
general) are basically screwed against armored opponents.  My Templar found 
this a source of endless frustration.<<

Not to be flip, but if it's that big a deal, maybe he should get a gun. :-)

Not every attack is going to be universally effective. My gunslinger carries a pair of Tokarevs. Those do 3d6 damage; unless I'm lucky enough to scrounge a few AP rounds, they penetrate no more armor than a Templar's sword. And they run out of bullets. 

>> The player envisions his Templar 
character (not unreasonably) as primarily a swordfighter.  There are already 
enough things (like almost the entire Road Warrior book, unless your 
opponents are obliging enough to try boarding ;) ) that make HTH fighting 
redundant.<<

Not unreasonable at all, but there are disadvantages to that. It all comes down to bringing a knife to a gunfight. If he's going up against opponents that are constantly packing heat or too armored for his sword to penetrate, a change of tactics might be in order. 

OTOH, if as a player, he's truly unhappy with the game as a result, I'd suggest (as a player) he either consider a different character type or (as a Marshal) perhaps structuring adventures more suited to the character. 

>>It is still hard to penetrate high armor levels, but it gives the 
Templar/swordfighter a fighting chance against low-end stuff in the armor 
range (say, 4-7).<<  

I'm not clear--are you saying an opponent in the AV 4-7 range is _low_ or _high_? If it's low for your campaign, then give the guy the souped up version you spoke of earlier, for pete's sake! <g>

OTOH, if that's the high end, then the power (with a bonus equal to level) is about right. Remember though, a sword penetrates AV 3 as well as a pistol round and does better damage once it does.

The reason I suggest the bonus per level to the roll is I agree with you--it's unlikely he'll ever get more than 1 or 2 raises with any frequency. By giving a bonus to the roll equal to the level, he gets something for increasing it. 

How likely is it that he'd ever get 5 raises necessary to take advantage of the power's level 5 under the old system? It could happen, but not enough to be worth the point cost.

>> Other folks can buy/make/obtain AP rounds for their guns 
(not easily, but this is a setting limitation, not a rules limitation), use 
Slow Burn, mental-type Syker effects, Neutron Blast, EMP, etc.<<

Conversely, encountering highly armored opponents is also a setting, not rules, limitation. The group _doesn't_ have to encounter them. AP bullets are less effective against soft targets; syker and doomsayer powers are generally one use, require an Aptitude roll, and use Strain. I advise restraint with Templar gifts because they have _none_ of these drawbacks.

>>Against high-end armor stuff I don't want _anybody_ to have an easy time of 
it :) , so this is consistent with Cutting Edge not being a great Gift 
against high-armored opponents.<<

I agree, with only one or two tweaks.

>>(snipped comments on Templar's effectiveness defensively)<<

Wow--with a turtle that potent, I'd almost not give him _anything_ offensive. :-)

>>Mileage in your campaign may vary.  Don't know if you've read my review of 
Killer Clown over on Azrael, John (or seen my occasional comments here).  
However, at the very least, my group seems to be rather...widely divergent 
from yours as far as tactics and such.<<

No--what's the URL?

>>Much appreciated.  Thanks.<<

Again, anytime! :-)

John