Re: [HoE] Templar Gift - Impressions?

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

>From: PEGGoff@aol.com
>

Thanks for the input, to both you and Darrin.

>In a message dated Tue, 2 May 2000  5:13:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>"Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com> writes:
>     In game terms this means that the Templar may reduce their opponent's
>Defensive Bonus by an amount equal to their Faith skill level.   This does
>not overcome the initial target number required to hit, or reduce wound
>penalties.  It simply reduces the defense gained from skill and weapon
>Defensive Bonus.<<
>
>Sounds pretty good. My only nitpick is that as written, it's still _very_ 
>hard to penetrate high armor levels. Realistically, I'd say if the 
>Templar's getting a consistent raise on his HTH roll, his going 
>gangbusters. Fightin' is a hard Aptitude to get a raise on if the opponent 
>has any skill at all.
>

Unfortunately, that seems to be a flaw in the HTH rules.  Other than 
background-type reasons rather than rule reasons (i.e., lack of bullets), 
there seems to be no reason to _ever_ go into HTH.

Guns have things like multiple attacks; you (typically) go up against your 
opponent's HTH bonus as a penalty to the TN; you get an automatic +2 on hit 
location if you use a ranged weapon at point-black range (same as a HTH 
fighter in a typical fight); _and_ AP-type HTH weapons don't seem to have 
caught on, judging from the lack of them listed anywhere except on the more 
esoteric equipment lists (like Cyborgs).

To expand upon a point I noted in my response to Darrin, the Gift has kind 
of evolved in response to the fact that Templars (and HTH fighters in 
general) are basically screwed against armored opponents.  My Templar found 
this a source of endless frustration.  The player envisions his Templar 
character (not unreasonably) as primarily a swordfighter.  There are already 
enough things (like almost the entire Road Warrior book, unless your 
opponents are obliging enough to try boarding ;) ) that make HTH fighting 
redundant.

It is still hard to penetrate high armor levels, but it gives the 
Templar/swordfighter a fighting chance against low-end stuff in the armor 
range (say, 4-7).  Other folks can buy/make/obtain AP rounds for their guns 
(not easily, but this is a setting limitation, not a rules limitation), use 
Slow Burn, mental-type Syker effects, Neutron Blast, EMP, etc.

Against high-end armor stuff I don't want _anybody_ to have an easy time of 
it :) , so this is consistent with Cutting Edge not being a great Gift 
against high-armored opponents.

>Still, I don't know how to change it. Reducing one AV per level with a 
>single raise is _way_ too much...
>

Agreed.

>How about for purposes of determining this (and this only), he gets to add 
>his level in the power to the fightin' roll. Every raise he gains he can 
>then sacrifice to lower the victim's AV. How's that sound?
>

That doesn't really amount to a great deal, so I don't have a problem with 
it.  Even with five levels, that only means the Templar gets an additional 
assured one raise/-1 AV.

The problem isn't for us that the Templar can't get Raises (he's a _really_ 
good swordfighter), it's that against stuff like Lurkers, those raises are 
useless.

But it's something to consider, yes.  However, the Greater Reward does 
something similar (see my comments below).

>The Greater Reward is pretty darn powerful. I'd almost say half that 
>amount. You don't want the Templar whopping up on the Marshal's fightin' 
>bad guys _too_ easily. :-)
>

One thing is he has modified it slightly (I didn't have the copy) so that 
it's not cumulative with...ummm, whatever that swordfighting technique is 
(Feint, I think).

It was intended to be somewhat powerful, in line with Greater Rewards in 
general.  But also note that it is Faith-dependent.  Faith would appear to 
be a somewhat underused skill, given that it only contributes to 1-2 of the 
Templars' many Gifts.

However, this Greater Reward is only useful against opponents who _have_ 
Defensive Bonuses (i.e., folks fighting HTH against the Templar).  Against 
someone shooting him with a gun, it is useless, since they weren't getting 
Defensive Bonuses in the first place!  Typically, the difference tends to be 
a raise.

I couldn't speak as to the full reasoning, but I believe it was  intended 
that this ability would to some degree bolster the lesser Gift, kind of like 
your suggestion that the levels in this Gift augment the raises for the 
lesser roll.

How powerful it is is probably dependent on how much your opponents use HTH. 
  Mine typically don't a great deal, for the reasons cited above (and ammo 
isn't really an issue for NPCs).  The Templar is a good HTH fighter, so he 
gets his defensive skill bonuses (and weapon bonus, and Guardian Angel, and 
the other Gift that its Greater Reward gives you +4 to Defensive Bonuses and 
Dodge).

For instance, my group was fighting Wormlings last week, and eventually they 
just shrugged, gave up on the HTH, and went with spitting.  They forfeited 
their Defensive Bonus and maybe did a little less damage, sure, but at least 
they could _hit_ the Templar.

Mileage in your campaign may vary.  Don't know if you've read my review of 
Killer Clown over on Azrael, John (or seen my occasional comments here).  
However, at the very least, my group seems to be rather...widely divergent 
from yours as far as tactics and such.

>My thoughts,
>

Much appreciated.  Thanks.

>John

---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

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