Re: [BNW] Sneak Weak?

[Theo McGuckin <tsm@jlab.org>]

> >My group was talking about the Sneak PP. One of the players was thinking
> >about playing one, but it seemed under-powered to her/us.
> >
> 
> Well first of all, you expect "balance" in power packages.  Heh.  ;)
>
> Our observation is that any package without combat abilities is 
> "under-powered."  It kinda depends on how combat-intensive your campaign is.

See my last post for a response to this (I think in a good campaign all
the packages should balance out somewhat, except maybe the genius :)

> Unfortunately, given that your characters are (typically, although not 
> always) on-the-run, underground resistance types at this time, a certain 
> degree of combat is expected.

But since they are on the run, underground etc. their should also be a
good deal of stealth involved. Any resistance that relies souly on
hihg-explosives and fisticuffs is going to lose. By defenition you are
always going to be out-powered (otherwise you would be in power and they
would be the resistance) so you have to rely on smarts and sneakiness to
get the job done.

> The problem with Stealth and Sneak, and or basing adventures on it, is that 
> there is no...well, "drama" to it.  An adventure that ends with:
> 
> "Okay, I make my +10 sneak roll, get by the guard, hack the files (maybe 
> dramatically spending a delta point or two), get the vital information the 
> Defiance needs, and leave."
> 
> Granted, your other combat-type characters may be doing dramatic things 
> (fighting to distract most of the base guards in this example, for 
> instance).  The problem is that that is...well, more dramatic.  With 
> Sneak/Stealth, you either do it or you don't.  Not much "drama" there.
> 
> Stealth and adventures built primarly around it just don't have 
> the...dramatic impetus, shall we say?  ;)  There's no variation.  Either you 
> make the Stealth roll(s), or you don't.

<snip>

These are good points. But I think part of the problem (and I've done it
too) rests on the Marshall/Guide/DM. Your example of: ""Okay, I make my
+10 sneak roll..." could just as easily be applied to combat: "Okay, I
roll to hit and get a 12, my damage is..." The difference is all in the
embellishment. 
Guides spend lots of time (at least I do) putting together villains with
unique abilities and also in setting up combat scenarios that challenge
the players. And a lot of times the same effort isn't put into other types
of encounters.
What really nails this for me is this: 
Every time my group (in Deadlands) gets into combat I take the time to map
out the scene and place miniatures and describe details. 
I can't remember the last time I did that when the group had to sneak
through a building.

Another problem is that a lot of times people (again from my limited exp.)
treat stealth skills as all or nothing: "OK, there are two guards in this
room, but they don't seem really interested in what's going on, so make
your stealth roll <opposed roll>:
- "You slip past the guards and duck out of the room without a trace"
- or - "You try to sneak by the guards, but one turns to stretch just as
you roll by catching sight of you, roll init."

Instead maybe it should be treated like combat, more of an action by
action deal:
Same room, but this time there's a map with curtains, chairs tables with
table clothes, etc:
"OK, I try to slink over to the curtains on the wall."
"You start to make your way to the curtains when you see one of the guards
get up and turn to stretch."
<looking at the map> "I'll try to scuttle behind that table, and once I'm
there I pull out my colt and wait for the worst but hope for the best."
"Go ahead and roll your stealth, you get a +2 because the cover is so
close [the player could have gotten a penalty if he had just gone ahead
to the curtains, which are a good distance away, instead of re-evaluating
his plan]"
<making the roll>
"OK you duck behind the table and slide out your gun. Holding your breath
for several seconds you hear nothing (you can't see what the guards are
doing from where your hiding). After a minute you hear one of the guards
say, 'stop fidgeting murray, it gets on my nerves,"
"I'll crawl around the table and see if they have their backs to me
again."
"Yeah, they've gone back to watching the front door."
"OK, the curtais looking less friendly all the time. It's a short sprint
to far door so I'm going to go for it while their backs are to me."
[the guide gives him a penalty to his roll, but burning a delta point the
sneak makes it through the room, only 4 more to go]

This could make sneaking through the room just as exciting as a good
combat.

> And a Gunner can get AP bullets pretty cheaply (a lot more cheaply than the 
> Kevlar Vest an opponent has that they render useless!).

Well yeah, but other than minor repairs the vest lasts forever, you gotta
keep buying the bullets. Anyway...

-Theo McCracken, whose thoughts and ideas are solely his own and do not, 
in any way, reflect those of Jefferson Lab or its staff. Unless of
course there is any money to made off those ideas, in which case the lab
says: "Gimme, gimme, gimme!"