Re: [BNW] Sneak Weak?

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

> > Unfortunately, given that your characters are (typically, although not
> > always) on-the-run, underground resistance types at this time, a certain
> > degree of combat is expected.
>
>But since they are on the run, underground etc. their should also be a
>good deal of stealth involved. Any resistance that relies souly on
>hihg-explosives and fisticuffs is going to lose. By defenition you are
>always going to be out-powered (otherwise you would be in power and they
>would be the resistance) so you have to rely on smarts and sneakiness to
>get the job done.
>

There's a couple of problems with that, though.  For one thing, a group of 
characters is only as sneaky as the least-sneaky character (like the story 
about two guys trying to outrun a tiger).  The same doesn't apply to combat. 
  Which means Sneaks are not that sneaky, overall.

Unless you're encouraging a lot of "My character goes off while the rest of 
the party does something else."  Unfortunately, even with the relatively 
simplified game mechanics of BNW (well, compared to, say its "predecessors 
DL and HoE, at any rate ;) ), running mini solo-adventures can be somewhat 
of a pain.  the only way to make them less harmful is to...well, not require 
the Sneak to sit there and make a lot of rolls.

> > Stealth and adventures built primarly around it just don't have
> > the...dramatic impetus, shall we say?  ;)  There's no variation.  Either 
>you
> > make the Stealth roll(s), or you don't.
>
><snip>
>
>These are good points. But I think part of the problem (and I've done it
>too) rests on the Marshall/Guide/DM. Your example of: ""Okay, I make my
>+10 sneak roll..." could just as easily be applied to combat: "Okay, I
>roll to hit and get a 12, my damage is..." The difference is all in the
>embellishment.


No, I know what you mean, and it's not what I meant.  ;)  What I mean is 
that if you succeed at a Sneak roll, you...succeed.  There's no shades of 
gray.  As you note, it's all-or-nothing (or a series of all-or-nothing).  
How many ways can you embellish "You succeed."  You can oversaturate the 
players with nifty ways of describing it, but the basic situation remains 
the same - you succeed.

Plus, succeeding at Stealth doesn't lead to a different set of variables.  
If I shoot you, I can describe the hit location.  I can describe the 
intensity of the wound.  I can describe the nature of the stun check and its 
success or failure.  If I succeed at a Stealth roll, all it does is lead 
into the next, separate action (which may be another Stealth roll, or 
whatever).

[some snippage]

>Instead maybe it should be treated like combat, more of an action by
>action deal:

[snippage of example]

Certainly there should be chances to "role-play" the environment.  But...

Remember what I said above about the Sneak being a solo character?  You go 
into that much detail (which gets dangerously close to the "describe the 
environment" overload which many rule-designers recommend to GMs anyway), 
and the rest of the players are going to be twidding their thumbs, whipping 
out their Gameboys, playing Magic the Gathering (tm), etc.

>This could make sneaking through the room just as exciting as a good
>combat.
>

But not for the other players...

And I still thinking we're talking about two different things.  I'm not 
talking "exciting" - I'm talking "dramatic."  A combat can be for all the 
marbles.  It's a "we need combat to take out the bad guy before he detonates 
the bomb."  Or "If I don't hack into the system before the virus goes off, 
the world economy is doomed."  Or even "If I don't persuade that woman to 
hand me the detonator, we're all dead."

Stealth is more of a means to an end, rather than a way to accomplish the 
end itself.  You can sneak up behind the bad guy to backstab him (A&D Thief 
characters take note), but that means Combat is the driving force.  You may 
have to sneak into the HQ to get at the top-security computer terminal, but 
that means Computer is the driving force.

And when you try to make Stealth the driving force ("All I have to do is 
sneak around the bad guy to press the button to stop the bomb.") it tends to 
be somewhat anti-climactic, no matter how many opportunities you give the 
Sneak to take advantage of the environment to boost his Stealth roll.

> > And a Gunner can get AP bullets pretty cheaply (a lot more cheaply than 
>the
> > Kevlar Vest an opponent has that they render useless!).
>
>Well yeah, but other than minor repairs the vest lasts forever, you gotta
>keep buying the bullets. Anyway...
>

Can't repair the vest if you're dead...  Although I'm sure your character's 
heir will appreciate the thought.  :)

---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

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