[BNW] [Matt] Transferring Skill Points (cont'd)

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

>And from Steve Crow:
>
> >>The rules talk about splitting your skill points on page...81 or so.  
>You
>can use 2 Spirit points to buy 1 level of Strength (or Speed, or Smarts)
>Skill.
>
>
>It isn't clear that this is talking about initial character creation 
>_only_,
>and it's not in that section.  But assuming it is so...
>
>
>Why would you?
>
>

Why would I what?  Assume you can only do it during initial creation _only_? 
  Because it's pretty weird otherwise.

If you can do it any time, fine.  At the end of my third adventure, I'll 
spend 1 exp to buy Science/Chemistry 1.  And I'll spend 1 exp to buy 
Science/Biology 1.  Then...I'll convert the two points of Smarts skills I 
just got and buy my sixth level of Shooting (which would normally cost 6 
exp).  Net saving of 4 exp points.  Cool.

I assume this was not the intent.  But if you can switch skill points (as 
per pg. 86) any time, then it is doable.  Abuseable, IMO, but doable.

Please clarify on this, since my players (surprise! ;) ) are more than 
willing to leap in and take advantage of this if it can be done anytime.

[various snippage of my example of how you could "transfer" points]

>There seems to be an unstated restriction that you can only buy Positive
>Quirks with points from Negative Quirks.  However, this is NEVER stated in
>the rules.<<
>
>Actually, if you do things in the order they're stated in the book, this
>happens naturally. It's only if you start backtracking that you run into
>those kinds of problems. There's a reason they're in the order they're 
>listed
>in the book. For the record, you can only buy positive quirks with points
>from negative quirks.
>
>

Well, no offense, but that is not clear at all and does NOT happen 
naturally.  During Step 3 (Quirks), it is stated that you _can_ go back to 
Step 2 (Skills).  See page 62.  So the rules itself establish you can 
backtrack to some degree.

But even so...in my example, I created the character as per the rules.  To 
repeat:  I bought my skills.  Then I moved on to Step 3, bought my 4 pts. of 
Positive Quirks (using skill points - nothing prevents this in the printed 
rules), then took four points of Negative Quirks and _backtracked_ (as the 
rules permit) to buy 4 more points of Skills.  I simply bought them in a 
category other than Strength.

If you can't backtrack, then you can _only_ use Negative Quirks to buy 
Positive Quirks, you can't use them to buy Skills.  The rules say you can 
use NQ points to do _both_.  This would be backtracking, which you say above 
can't be done (but the rules say you do).

That's what I mean about being confusing and unclear.  Backtracking has 
nothing to do with it, it's the fact nothing is stated about what you can 
buy PQs with that is the issue.  You run into these problems whether you 
backtrack or not.  Although...the rules _do_ let you backtrack from Step 3 
to Step 2.

Also, while the rules state in a number of places that you can take no more 
than 10 points of Negative Quirks, they say nothing about being limited to 
10 points of Positive Quirks.  This is essentially what you are limited to.  
And I'm still not sure that makes a difference...you can potentially abuse 
the system as printed simply because of the way that you can spend the 
points, not because of a cap on purchases.

And indeed, this seems to be the case - all the archetypes from the basic 
book have no more than 10 points of positive quirks (except the Gunner, but 
he adds up correctly once you remember he has Veteran).

But...no.  The character in question was built correctly using the printed 
rules, which do indeed permit backtracking.

I have no problem with accepting your ruling, but this is the kind of thing 
that our playtest-oriented bunch noticed pretty much right away.   :) The 
changes to make in this case would be:

page 62:  Step 3 should not let you go back to Step 2.

Page 61:  Should say, "You cannot take more than 10 points of negative OR 
POSITIVE quirks.  POSITIVE QUIRKS CAN ONLY BE PURCHASED USING POINTS FROM 
NEGATIVE QUIRKS."

Page 61:  Implication here is that points is points, and it's all one big 
happy pool.

There's a couple of other points where it should be emphasized as well, but 
that pretty much covers it.

Posssibly, you may want to limit the expenditure of NQs to _only_ purchasing 
PQs.  I think the archetypes are built that way (i.e., no archetype has more 
than 3x Attribute in skills for that attribute, adjusting for starting 
skills), but I wouldn't swear to it.

If that was the intent, this could also be clarified with a simple statement 
or two in a next edition of the rules.

[more snippage of my thinking a limit isn't necessary]

>1)  A clear ruling stating that Positive Quirks can only be bought with the
>
>points from Negative Quirks
>
>
>2) Lifting of the cap<<
>
>Let's go with #1! I thought it was clear already, but apparently not.
>

Again, I have no problem with this.  Indeed, it is implied if you study the 
archetypes closely and do some math, but the sequence of character building 
as written does let you do what was originally described.

>Thanks for playing!
>

Thanks for listening.  Hope this suggestion helps, and can be inserted into 
a (hopefully!) second edition.

>Matt Forbeck
>AEG
>
>
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---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

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