Re: [pyrnet] Dew Claws

[dsmith@iolinc.net (Smith, Deborah)]

    I don't know for sure but I'd say that in a Pyr it isn't what I'd call recessive.  I've seen Pyr mixes before (mixed with breeds without any back dew claws) and most of the mixes had the double dew claws, the ones that didn't had singles in back and of course the front single dew claws.

    Are you saying the Pyr standard states it's recessive or the Beauceron standard?

    While we're on the subject of dew claws, I'd like to ask everyone what they think about the following.  My oldest male Pyr {entirely purebred :) } naturally has his front single dew claws and back double dews but on his back left foot (I think it is....maybe his right) he has an extra, very small nail.  Not an extra third toe on the doubles, just a tiny extra nail on one of the double toes.  He also passes this on to about half of his offspring.  Any thoughts?

 

Chrissy

> Thea,
> 
> I am the mother to a beauceron 
and a Pyr - both breeds with double hind dew claws.  Here's what I know - 
hope it helps.
> 
> Double dew claws *are* in fact the result of a 
recessive gene.  If a beauce or a Pyr is not "purebred" this is usually one 
of the first traits to go - hence the logic behind keeping it as a breed 
standard.  It is a "recessive" held by 90%/+ of the dogs in the breed 
(there are rare "purebreds" who have the remaining dominant - but since the 
breed stanrd calls for the recessive, these dogs are not usually bred - 
therefore, the trait is exceedingly rare, and continuously becomes more 
so).
> 
> [genetics lesson - skip to next paragrapg if you know this 
stuff]
> In human beings, there are two genetic eye colors - brown and 
blue (gray or green are genetically blue with some other stuff in the iris 
itself to change the reflection).  In any group of humans, you will find 
both - but if you breed them, and even one has brown eyes, it is statistically 
probable that the offspring will have brown eyes.  However, it is not 
absolute, as the brown-eyed parent could just as easily have a recessive 
blue-eyed gene (we all have two for everything - if both are recessive, we get 
the recessive trait, if even one is dominant, we get the dominant trait - but we 
only pass on one when breeding, so in order for the child to have the recessive 
trait, both parents must pass on the recessive)
> 
> In most 
breeding, breeders select to reinforce the accepted "dominants" - or the 
accepted "recessives" that conform to standard.  Since most breeds have 
been bred for a while, breeders are usually either selecting for dominants, or 
(as with our breeds and the double dews) reinforcing a recessive that has been 
reinforced so often, the dominant is darned rare if not eliminated.
> 
> So, in most cases, (breeders: yes, I know there are many exceptions, 
just generalizing for the situation - a lesson in dew claws, not a comprehensive 
breeder's genetics course - no lectures necessary, even if appropriate 
<g>) the only way to get a "suddenly" recessive trait is to in-breed, 
reinforcing a recessive gene.
> 
> Your brilliant boxer-breeder 
acquaintance apparently does not understand enough to realize that where 
recessive have been determined to be the desirable trait, the dominants can be 
almost completely bred out (as with Pyrs and beauces) so that the recessive is 
the only commonly available trait.
> 
> There's the polite 
explanation - my personal answer is that (1) the guy's a twerp, (2) you should 
never listen to idiots on the street - and now that you have identified him as 
one, I am sure you won't <s> and (3) if there is anything wrong with your 
Pyr, the dew claws are most *certainly* not an indicator of it, and are more 
likely to indicate that things aren't wrong <g>.
> 
> BTW, my 
beauce, with the very prominent double dews, has four French National Tracking 
Champions, three French Ring III Selectifs and innumerable "recommande" breeding 
stock bitches and studs in the last three generations.  He is healthy, 
happy, bouncy, and brilliant, and after his first Search and Rescue training 
session, the entire (formerly skeptical, non-beauce-knwing) group decalred him a 
"natural" and "easily smart enough for this."  (ok, bragging a *little* 
<g> - but mostly, my point is that his dews don't seem to have made him 
Cro-Magnon Dog or anything <g>)
> 
> Di, Phobos the Faux 
Beauce and Calysto the Pyr - 8 dewclaws and one proud & happy 
mom