Re: [PyrNet-L] Pyrs easy to train???? NOT!!

[Cathryn Lundberg <cathryn@genetics.wisc.edu>]

At 03:02 PM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks Danita.  It always bothers me when people say that pyrs are difficult
>to teach.  I think they come by some things naturally.  Since one person said
>that I was the exception in not having a problem in training a pyr, I guess
>I'm not alone.  Kind of makes one wonder what the owners are doing to have
>such problems.
>Have a great day.
>Dave

I think it depends on what you are training, and what your expectations are. 

Have you ever tried to recall a Pyr that has gotten loose? Most of them are
deaf at that point, although I have had a few that would recall nicely in
short order. The rest come back when they feel like it, as long as they are
on familiar ground and don't get hit by a car.  Most of these Pyrs will
come reliably inside the house or fenced yard, but give them freedom and
they are gone. They run the other way. 

For the most part Pyrs are highly intelligent, stubborn and independant. I
have one bitch who thought it was blasphemy for me to tell her to down. She
reliably does downstays now for 15-30 minutes, but training her to do it?
Try eating dinner standing up, and placing the dog back "down" every two
minutes or so, only to have her pop up again. I did this twelve or 15 times
one dinner, until she gave up. It was no fun.

I have trained one of my females to a high level of obedience (for a Pyr).
We would have completed our CD by now, except for the fact that she tends
to wander off when offlead in the ring. She does her recall on the run,
with a smile on her face. She stays and stands to perfection. She does her
automatic sits and finishes beautifully. BUT, she WILL NOT perform the heel
off lead exercise. She does it perfectly with food in your hand, but you
cannot take food into the ring!  And you cannot get a CD without the
heeling exercise. And so far I have not been willing to do the amount of
work it would take (and quite possibly taking all the fun out of it for
her) to get her to do this reliably. Pyrs do not care for repetition and
get bored easily. And seeing a Pyr hang his head low and go through the
slowly through the motions is not for me. I would not call this easy.

Pyrs are great house dogs, and usually learn the house rules easily. They
are easily house trained, and are naturally mellow, so they don't usually
get into a lot of trouble past the puppy stages. We do a little dog
proofing of the windows and garbage, and we find that Pyrs are easy to live
with. Aside from the barking, drooling, shedding and not coming when called...

I have taught my Pyrs a number of "tricks". It is just fun. Great crowd
pleaser. Kids are so happy if the dog will do something for them, even if
it is just a sit. It is relatively easy, if that particular Pyr can be
motivated by food. My dogs shake and you can ask for one paw and then "the
other one". I have taught bark on command--a quiet bark, a loud bark, and
QUIET-the command for stop barking. It is funny to see them stop mid bark
to get that treat! They catch treats in the air if you toss them. They will
pick out which fist has the treat in it and paw that one. They will rear up
like a seal for a treat if requested to. They will leave the treat alone if
requested (won't even look at it) and will then get it --on command,
whether in your hand or on the floor. They will sit and balance bones on
the ends of their noses, and you can walk 20 or so feet away and point at
them and they will toss and catch the treat and eat it. Same with a rope
tug (they look funny with a rope tug draped across the muzzle!). They will
catch toys in the air and retrieve them. They will go find their toys on
request. They will jump up on command and give a hug. They will dance with
me. My friend taught her female to roll over. I am currently teaching one
female to "say her prayers" by putting her front paws on my arm and tucking
her head. 

All these things, however, are accomplished by a good basic foundation in
obedience. The dog has to have learned how to pay attention (difficult for
some Pyrs), and then sit, stand, down and stay and come. Everything builds
from there. Often I look for natural behaviors and build on them--like the
Pyr paw. It is just a matter of rewarding the dog at the right time when he
does that behavior naturally, and then getting him (to do it again) to
understand what behavior earns him the reward. And then "shape" that
behavior into a "trick". There is a fine line between tricks and what we do
at home. My dogs ring a bell when they need to go outside--trick? or
training to live together?  

The point is that Pyrs greatly resist being "forced" to do anything. Mostly
it is passive resistance--I don't want to go in the house so I am going to
lie down and you are going to have to drag me. Sometimes as owners and
trainers we *do* have to *force* the issue. If you give a command, the dog
must follow it. An owner/trainer quickly learns to pick and choose his
fights. Learns not to ask the dog to do something if he thinks the dog will
disobey immediately. Becasue once you issue the command, and you are
ignored, you have to follow through and make them comply, or else your
alpha status and authority will become a joke. So don't ask your dog to lay
down when you are comfortable on the couch and he is blocking your view, if
you don't feel like getting up and making him go down if he ignores you.
Ask him to c'mere instead and get an ear rub. Both got what they wanted
without a clash of wills. And when it gets to that, the human must always
win. So set up your situations for success!

So again it depends on what you are training, and what your expectations are.

Cathryn Lundberg
Solstice Great Pyrs