Re: [HoE] Answers to my "Something About A Sword" post...

[The Baron Samedi <baron11@netmcr.com>]

At 09:27 AM 4/19/00, you wrote:
>>That said, I don't think even 50% of Doomsayers have any idea Deflection
>>exists.  If they do, how big a percentage have seen the Greater Reward
>
>Perhaps.  But a few things come to mind for me...
>
>1) Again, there is _never_ any reason to aim a Nuke directly at someone, 
>as far as I can tell.  Is there...?

Human tendency.  if you look in on games, most people say I shoot X with 
the Nuke.  In at least one case, a Doombringer is instructed to, in an 
adventure, hit a PC with a Nuke.  So it is not all that alien.  Generally, 
people do not aim for the ground or feet with such things.  Why? well, the 
way people think does not always make sense.

As an aside, I actually know of a game where it is a house rule that you 
cannot aim for the ground or something like that with a Nuke, ICBM, or 
Arson.  Not a good house rule, mind you, and not one that I use, or the GM 
in the game I play in uses, or that a fellow players game used.


>2) Malias is a Doombringer.  A slight difference, but presumably DBs have 
>a little better chance of surviving an encounter with a powerful Templar 
>than a Doomsayer.  At best, a DB may have survived an Atomic Blast or ICBM 
>or something being Deflected back at them.

True, although in the case of Deflection, they stand a very real chance of 
eating their own Blast which is a fatal to them as anyone.  Oh, their Syker 
buddy may have been deflected but would they notice that much?


>3) According to the Templars book, Templars now on (to put it bluntly ;) ) 
>Silas' shit list .  Presumably they got there by being a formidable threat.
>Part of why they're a formidable threat is...well, Deflection.

Ok, Mr. Crow.  This is a valid argument to me.  I can deal with it. (note: 
as it is impossible to adequately convey over email, I *AM NOT* trying to 
be biting or sarcastic here{or anywhere else})


>4) The Greater Power lets the Templar deflect a Nuke directed against 
>anyone (in which case #1 above is a moot point, true).  And it's true 
>probably not too many folks have seen a Templar with that Greater Power 
>(and survived).
>But a Templar only needs one level of Deflection to try and thwart a Nuke 
>directed at him.  So I don't think this is as big a rarely seen tactic as 
>made it out.
The Greater Reward can leave you hatin' life if yer playing a Doomsayer.
I guess how likely you are to survive seeing that greater reward is 
inversely proportional to how arcane your attacks are.  Letmetellya, the 
next Anti-Templar I fought I used an Auto-Shotgun on.




>>that were probably toast 1 second after seeing it used.  I would think a
>>Doomsayer or Doombringer without intimate knowledge of the power would not
>>shoot the ground.  On the other hand, one burned by the Greater Reward
>>might not even send a Nuke at a Templar.
>
>Again, the question remains:  why would a Nuke-user _ever_ aim directly at 
>a target when you can simply say, "I'll target that spot in the air 1' to 
>their left."?

addressed above.


>>Example: Sheol, a Harrowed Doomsayer I play was stalking a suspected
>>Anti-Templar, The Lord of the Waste.  I had a Templar ally (for one game)
>>who had Deflection.  I had a clear shot at the Lord of the Waste, but did
>>not fire.  why?  well, I could shoot a Atomic Blast, but what if she had
>>Deflection?  I could shoot a Nuke at the ground, but what if she had the
>>Greater Reward?  No, I stayed my hand.  Did she have either?  I still don't
>>know, but she was/is a Servitor, so that point is moot.  The point is, I
>>did think of it because my ally had it and I knew it.  If I had no such
>>ally, I would have fired, and not at the  ground! that would be doing some
>>serious metagaming.
>
>Again, why would you fire directly at the person with a Nuke?  What 
>benefit do you gain from doing that?  I can see why your character would 
>be leery of throwing _any_ kind of ranged magical attack at a Templar 
>given the scenario above.  But if you _have_ to attack (as opposed to just 
>sitting there at range and doing nothing while the Templar uses Dead Eye 
>and picks you off :) ), the odds favor you attacking him (or anyone else) 
>with Nuke by aiming it just behind or ahead or to the side of them.

well, she did not know I was there as far as I knew or I would probably 
have reached for my Shotgun (did not have my Auto one yet).
Beyond that, well, it only occurred to me to Shoot the ground because I was 
thinking Deflection.  It would not have even occurred to me otherwise I 
don't think.  Truth be told, If Memory Serves Me Right, I was considering 
shooting an object nearby, not the ground.  I don't _think_ the ground 
occurred to me.


>>Most Green Robes don't have Templar allies.  They don't know what all they
>>can do, except their famous Lay On Hands.  How much is legend?  If my
>>Marshal had every one fire at the ground if I had a Templar, I'd be mighty
>>sore.  As a Marshal, when running anything from Doomsayers to Hucksters, I
>>think about what the Villain knows.  Is someone running around in a Tabard?
>>well, if so, does the villain  know about Deflection?  I'd give the chances
>>of the Green Robe Knowing about it as pretty low unless their Academia:
>>Occult was real high.  Huckster, well, that would vary like mad.
>>
>
>Well keep in mind that "everyone firing at the ground" is not an option 
>for most HoE-magical abilities.  It won't work for ICBM, or MIRV, or 
>Atomic Blast, or Brain Blast, or...well, you get the idea.  So your 
>Templar in the case above probably isn't going to be too sore, and the 
>Marshall probably isn't going to do this tactic very often.

My book is not here, but would it not work for ICBM?  I thought that had a 
Burst Radius.  I could be wrong here.


>We are _only_ talking about Nuke here (and a relatively small subset of 
>other "area of effect" attacks like, say, Arson).  And the fact that it is 
>pretty easy to bypass Deflection is indeed a problem...but overall it 
>still means that Deflection gives the Templar an ability that lets him 
>bypass and reverse a wide range of attacks that other folks don't 
>have.  His inability to generally use Deflection 1-5 (w/o the Greater 
>Power) against Nuke just means in this one specific instance, he is on the 
>same level as everyone else.

I dunno If I would call it a problem for people with Deflection. (like you 
went on to say).  I am talking more about practical foreknowledge (how much 
do the bad guys know) and less about game balance.


>As for knowledge, I would agree that not _every_ Doomsayer might know this.
>But...in the example in question, we're talking Doombringers.  Who are 
>specific hunter-killer types for Silas.  See #2 and 3 above.  Templars are 
>on Silas "kill on sight" list.

and my comment on the Marshal should have been paying attention.
Otherwise, good point about the Doombringers, tho their downside is that 
they are completely, utterly, and totally Bloodthirsty and Nuts.  We are 
talking really, really insane here.  I question that all Doombringers would 
have the good sense to hold back showing a Nuke down someone throat just 
for kicks.  Some would, but these are not terminateters, but raving loons.


>But again, we come back to for any Nuke-user:  "Why not aim for the ground 
>next to them?"  The only reason above I can tell is, "Because the players 
>would be sore."  This doesn't really seem like a motivation most villains 
>would take into account when you put yourself into their mindset.  :)

granted.
But Mindset is my whole point, and Deflection is 1 out of 22 Rewards.
We disagree on human nature here, evidently.  That seems to be the key.


>>just my view
>>TBS
>
>
>---
>
>Steve Crow
>
>