Re: [HoE] Templar Observation (long)

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

>Okay, that's a problem. The Templar [IMNSHO] should have been the first
>one to go at the Servitor. The Templars' exist to save the world by
>wiping out all the evils and lowering the Fear Level. They don't have to
>fight every little battle, but a battle with a Servitor is anything but
>a fight against a minor evil. Even if he was in a town where the people
>didn't deserve to live, I would think that even Simon would turn a blind
>eye to that if the group was fighting a Servitor.
>

Hmmm.  As I later noted, it wasn't that he didn't participate at all.  He 
actually took a fair amount of damage.  It was just that, after the rest of 
the party had opted out on killing the key to defeating the Servitor, he 
didn't feel the Servitor could be defeated, and that the players' 
alternative would be successful.

> > But now...the Templar wishes to grab a Greater Power.
> >
> > Now my gut feeling is basically to not let him do this.  But...the 
>Saints in
> > general don't really seem to take this kind of approach.  As long as 
>you're
> > a Templar, if you pay for the levels, you get the levels.
>
>IMNSHO, again, a Greater Reward is something that is *EARNED*. He had to
>actually significantly contribute to the battle in order to get it.
>True,
>the book says that if the posse gets a Legend Chip, the Templar gets a
>Greater Reward if he has a Gift at level 5, but I would inform him that
>he didn't earn it and, just *possibly*, let it slide once and tell him
>to read "Last Crusaders" a little more closely. Being a Templar isn't
>just about getting all these cool powers so that you can survive and
>kick ass, it's about being willing to give your life for those that
>deserve to live and being willing to give your life to make the world a
>better place for the future. I'm guessing that your player didn't pick
>up on that and only chose a Templar because they get cool powers that
>don't cost Strain and are "always on" [even though they are expensive
>power to buy.]
>

No.  Actually, for the most part, his role-playing of the Templar is totlly 
in line with how the Last Crusaders book describes them.  At best, it's IMO 
a valid interpretation.  A rather harsh one, but certainly in line with how 
the Templar SB presents things from, say, Jo's narrative.

Besides, sometimes you _need_ cool powers to take down a Servitor.  But no, 
I wouldn't say that getting cool powers is his primary justification, no.

> >  But
> > when you got a player that gets it into his head that Templars are a
> > bit...different than what they appear to be in the Sourcebook, it can 
>get a
> > bit sticky.  And since we've seemed to determine that Simon & Co. pretty
> > much let the Templars have a free hand in carrying out their vows (see
> > discussions from a month or so ago), enforcement from that quarter 
>doesn't
> > seem very workable.
>

[various comments on empowerment, blackballing, etc.]

That was the part I tried to cover when noting that most of my 
normally-considered  "fixes" weren't available.  The group _did_ eventually 
defeat the Servitor (albeit despite the efforts of the Templar to some 
degree - i.e., when he decided that killing the girl was more important than 
holding off the Servitor or using non-violent means to "defuse" the girl).  
The battle did not take place in front of the townspeople.  Nobody died as a 
result of his actions, although various threats and stuff were tossed back 
and forth.

>Suggestion, have Saint Stern turn his back on him. Don't let him use any
>of the powers associated with him. This is one of those "greater than
>the sum of it's parts" instances. What he did *may* have been what Saint
>Stern would have done [even though I don't see how sacrificing a town so
>that the bad guy could GET AWAY would possibly be something Stern would
>have done. He may have nuked the town to kill the Servitor, but that's
>different], but the Saints realize that the Templars are the best hope
>for the world and that if all Templars acted like this, the world is in
>much worse shape.
>

Killing the innocent girl _would_ have defeated the Servitor.  It was merely 
that the gorup wanted to pursue another, less bloodthirsty option.

Plus...once the rest of the group remained the killing option (by running 
away with the group), the Templar could not defeat the Servitor.  At that 
point, the choices seemed to be:  A) stick around and fight a Servitor who 
couldn't be "true death'd", B) or run away.

>A note about Saint Stern, it isn't that he didn't care about innocents,
>it's that he would sacrifice a hundred people to save a thousand. Stern
>would nuke a town full of Ebola victims so that the disease didn't
>spread into the rest of the country and kill *EVERYONE*.
>
>Also, in the "Marshals' Section" of the book, it states that Saint Stern
>was a victim of Night Terrors because of the things he had done. He
>sacrificed a few to save the many, but the deaths of the few still
>weighed heavily on his conscience.
>

Since the girl never got killed, we didn't get to a point where the Templar 
may or may not have been able to role-play out such qualms of conscience.  
Inflicting Night Terrors on him might have been another "penalty" I might 
have applied if he had killed the girl...but that never happened.

>Which brings me to my last idea, have the Templar [don't tell him this]
>pick up the "Night Terrors" Hindrance. He starts having Night Terrors,
>seeing himself standing idly by while the Servitor kills his friends,
>the townspeople, his loved ones [even if they're already dead]. Then
>have him dream, still standing idly by, while a horde of Walkin'' Dead
>massacres a pre-Last War town. Make it graphic if you have to. Little
>old ladies, kids, mothers and father, until he gets the idea that he
>should care about the innocent. He can still be willing to sacrifice
>them if it means that many more will live, but their deaths should still
>be a concern to him.
>

It's a better alternative than a death-type mutation, I'm thinking.  Will 
have to consider it a bit more, given that as noted, he never actually got 
around to doing the stuff in question.  I suppose his subconscious doesn't 
know that, though...  :)

>Personally, I'm betting that he wanted a Templar because of the cool
>powers that he can get and be a One-man Death Machine (TM). Am I right?
>

Nope.  This is a guy who buys Professional/Road Kill Cooking Cuisine Lvl 3 
in the same session that he takes Armor of the Saints 4.

>But, that's just my opinion as someone who plays a Templar, and I talk a
>lot....
>

Responses appreciated, thanks!

>Mgkelly
>--
>"Justice, not Mercy!"


---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

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