Re: [HoE] assorted [HOPLER]

[The Baron Samedi <baron11@netmcr.com>]

>
>         First and foremost are issues of game balance.  I can say with 
> some degree
>of certainty that I am far to the left when it comes to schools of
>role-playing.  Storyline and character development are items that I hold
>near and dear to my heart.  As such, game balance between different
>"classes" (in this case Arcane Backgrounds), usually matters very little to
>me.  However, when such a glaring disparity exists as does in the HoE
>universe, I *do* notice.  Fortunately (or unfortunately), this problem
>seems to be restricted to HoE; I've never had a problem with Hucksters,
>Mads, or Blessed overpowering the "norms" in the party in a Weird West
>game.  In all honesty, I do not expect to be able to say the same of HoE in
>a few months.
>         A primary factor in this concern is the mitigation of the 
> probability of
>backlash.  In the Weird West, power always comes with risk.  Even Blessed-
>potentially the most powerful AB in the setting- need to be wary of the
>Sinnin' table.  In HoE, I cannot say the same.  For the most part, the
>backlash rules in HoE seem to be included strictly for form's sake, and do
>not present a real danger to the posse.  Sure, every now and then a
>Doomsayer is going to go bust on his 5d12 faith roll.
>         Maybe.
>         A similar situation exists for sykers.  The Templars, OTOH, get 
> off scot
>free, nary a naughty backlash mechanic among them.

Overall, I agree, and its pretty annoying.
Strain seems to have been included for such a purpose for those 
backgrounds, but the HoE I play in has gone about 6 or 7 sessions (I think) 
and my game I run has gone 3.  One game has two Doomsayers, one Syker. the 
other has one Doomsayer, one Syker.  Neither the Doomsayers nor the Sykers, 
as of yet, have EVER had to check for Brain Burn/get Mutated. In either 
game.  No one has yet run out of Strain (I don't think, last game someone 
came very close tho).  This compared to the Weird West folks problem, makes 
them have almost no problem.  People rarely go bust on 5 dice, esp when 
they are d12s or d10s (which is inevitable for the stats rolled).  Those 
charts may as well exist soly for Greenies and Initiates.

Templars are a different ball game.  While the lack of Strain or Sinnin' or 
Backlash is bad, their powers are minor by comparison.  Also, if they have 
Martyrs, they do effectively have spirit bans, some of which can be 
limiting.  Their Lay on Hands works on one person once per day and not on 
them.  They can lose Faith on the Scart chart.  Templars are controllable, 
esp if you disallow those bloody sword maneuvers.  Also they can only get 
Greater Rewards with legend chips...




>         The only AB that seems reasonably balanced under the current 
> rules are
>junkers.  Sure they can build devices of incredible doom, but there is risk
>involved.  Risk of jury-rigged components falling apart.  Risk of the
>fickle tech spirits abandoning you at your hour of need.  The risk of being
>*burned* is very real.  Thereby the junker is perhaps the only AB that is
>roughly balanced with a non-AB starting character.  Kudos to you, Mr.
>Hopler, for including this aspect in "The Junkman Cometh".


agreed.


(snip lifetap)
I am going to have to look into that but if it as sick as you say I will 
have to get it for my Doomsayer er I mean disallow it for my game ;-P



>         Ah ha! But I could make individual encounters more difficult, yes?
>Perhaps.  But what about the gunfighter?  The old soldier?  What about all
>the other characters that can't dole out destruction on a massive scale? To
>use a D&D frame of reference for a moment, it's like plopping a 20th level
>character into a party of 1st level characters.  One of two things is going
>to happen: tailor to the low-levels, and have the high level clean house.
>Bored low-levels.  Our other option is to challenge the high level, and to
>hell with everyone else.
>         Because that's exactly where they'll go.

In the two aforementioned HoE games, everyone has an Arcane Background 
and/or is Harrowed. Everyone with the exception of the Junker in training 
(who will be a Junker in one or two sessions). I am in one Deadlands game 
and running two, and in one DL game we have 3 of 5 without an AB (unless 
you count Knacks)  The other has only 3 people and all have ABs, and the 
third (that I play in) has 5 with 4 ABs.  (note I am considering Harrowed 
and Enlightened Martial Arts an AB for this purpose)

so in my experience, I agree HoE has a problem with those without 
ABs.  also, unlike Deadlands, they do not have the recourse of Faith 
(giving them the Protection Miracle, Longevity, or some Gift depending on 
faith in question) and does not offer them Knacks (I allow both in my games 
but thats neither here nor there) Making things worse is the fact that fuel 
and Bullets are so rare the normals in the group  are also back a step from 
DL as unlike those with infinite Strain with recovery,. their bullets will 
run out, and every shot costs them. dearly.

Makes you not want to be a norm huh?

I have come to see HoE as a place where only the best of the norms are not 
DOA.  unfortunately, with those ABs around, why play a norm?


>         They won't have the firepower to stand up to the punishment 
> they'll take.
>         Further complicating matters are additional edges such as Child 
> o' the
>Atom (extra strain).
>         It's no wonder the days of AB-lite posses have passed us 
> by.  Rather than
>being a rare, mysterious, and sometimes dangerous gift, players often must
>take an AB simply to keep on an even keel with the rest of the party.
>         Feh.
Don't forget Fortitude.  Makes CoA seem like nothing. and Steel trap mind 
or whatever gives more strain (in addition to Fortitude).  I have seen two 
Sykers, one in each game. both have, effectively, 34 Strain and no chance 
of going Bust on their roll.


<snip mood destroying stuff>
I would be inclined to disagree, but I see your point.  I think the 
defenders would say those are the camp elements always present in Deadlands 
from book 1.  But those are more blatantly silly then I have seen in the 
Weird West.



>         I realize that any and all of these complaints can be fixed by 
> Marshal
>caveat, and in my campaign, most will be.  But every game needs a baseline.
>  Every game needs a style, a genre, and a substance that is indelibly
>linked with said game.  Looking at Hell on Earth as a whole, the universe
>seems to be slowly sliding into a mish-mash of ideas- a patchwork quilt of
>style and substance.
>         I only hope it can still be salvaged.
Unlike the Weird West, the Wasted West has no historical background.  It is 
really out there from any other setting (yes it has inspirations, but still 
its not really like any of them as a whole). Therefore, it must be a 
mish-mash of ideas.  This is a universe that is not even historical 
fiction, and reality cannot provide the backbone of ideas in can in Weird 
West.  This makes it infinitely flexible, but with high chance of being 
screwed up.  Similarly, the ABs are either based on pop culture or pure 
designer ideas, verses the ABs of Weird West which, with the exception of 
Hucksters, all have basis in Theology, Mythology, or Science in one way 
shape or form.  you hear Blessed, Shaman, Voodooist, ect. and have an idea 
of what it is.  You hear Anhuaks or Harrowed described and you can relate 
through History or Horror in mythology.  Doomsayers?  Templars?  both total 
pennicle creations.  That is not a bad thing.  But it means the integrity 
and realism of the universe is more subjective.





>B.D. "Killer Tomatoes my left nvt" Flory

Da Baron "likes Zombies" Samedi