Re: [DL] Fudging

[Brett Dixon <balance@tubas.net>]

On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 03:53  PM, Evil Robot Shane From 
Another Dimension wrote:
>  The galaxy's a dangerous place.  If interstellar travel were a walk 
> in the
>  park, if people didn't die doing it, the setting would be different.
>  Personally, I like the idea that a Cyberpunk character can be killed 
> by a
>  mugger on the streets of Night City - pointless, meaningless deaths DO
>  happen, and it's this element of danger that makes the setting real 
> and
>  provides atmosphere.  How are you supposed to feel that you live in a
>  dangerous place if there's no actual danger to you?

A meaningless death is one thing... A total party-kill is something 
entirely different.

>  Another point is the aforementioned Astrogation roll.  If the game 
> mechanic
>  for it isn't going to be used, then the player pretty much wasted his
>  character points taking the skill.  He could have spent those points 
> on a
>  combat-related skill, since it looks like that's the skills most 
> likely to
>  actually require being used - after all, the GM isn't going to let 
> the fact
>  that nobody can actually fly a ship get in the way of the story, 
> he'll find
>  a way that things work out.  If there's no chance of messing up 
> Astrogation
>  being fatal, then it's not a very important skill, and personally I'd 
> want
>  combat skills so I can be a hero, not the guy who sits in the 
> background
>  because he doesn't have any useful skills.

My way of handling something like this, is that a failed roll of this 
nature would make life more difficult, but wouldn't whack the party. 
It's still a critical failure (or appropriate system term) and may even 
result in a death or two, but the whole group's life isn't wasted on 
one trivial roll in what, from the description, wasn't even a succesful 
meal.

>  Again, I disagree.  When I play an RPG, I WANT the chance to mess up. 
>  I
>  expect my GM to be able to handle that and incorporate it.  I do NOT 
> want to
>  be railroaded through the GM's story.  Unless it's been agreed 
> beforehand
>  that that's what the game will involve.

I'm what I consider a 'tough' player. I dpn't whine when the group gets 
screwed within the rules, as long as we have a chance. If my player 
gets whacked, I deal. I don't like some types of fudging, but 
interpreting results to make the game fun is the GM's job.

This particular situation is just pointless.

>  At the moment I'm playing in a D&D game that has a great background 
> and
>  setting, but our GM just won't kill anybody off.  So although it's 
> fun to
>  see what happens next and enjoy the story, there's no sense of 
> challenge or
>  achievement when we succeed at something.  Which means it's basically 
> like
>  reading a particularly immersive book.  Personally, I like something 
> more
>  dynamic than that.

I'm in a Werewolf game, and the GM is generally doing an excellent job, 
but I am concerned that she's fudging a bit in our favor. The game's 
bored me for a few reasons, including some non-relevant issues, but one 
thing that's annoyed me is that the GM appears to be pulling punches... 
i don't know, and consider it rude to ask, but I think the game has 
been a bit too easy because of normal balancing issues and possibly 
some fudging.

I agree it spoils the sense of achievement.

There's a big difference, though, between preventing a total party kill 
and making the big nasty a bit too easy.

>  Like I said, each to his own, but I think it's a tad arrogant to 
> write a GM
>  off as incompetent because his style doesn't appeal to you.

A fair comment, although I do feel that it's the type of thing that 
should be worked out in advance. I'm playing in a D&D game where I 
expect very little fudging, the aforementioned Werewolf game where I 
expect a lot, and my own moderate Deadlands game.

If I ever run, say, Delta Green or Heavy Gear like I've talked about to 
my players, I'll fudge less than i do now (which isn't a lot, I think) 
because it fits the nature of those games better...