Re: [DL] What happened to the Union?

[john tfs <johntfs1@yahoo.com>]

--- Brom Clancy <spleen23@webtrolls.com> wrote:
> spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---- deadlands@gamerz.net wrote:
> > Now, looking overy my map of the Deadlands world, 
> I'm truly perplexed. 
> > Looking over Tales o' Terror: 1877, I'm even more 
> perplexed...
> > 
> > What Happened to the Union? > 
> > 
> 
> I think the main thing that happened to the union is
> 
> that the recongners tipped the balance of a few 
> battles to prolong the war to the point that the 
> people of the union has just lost the will to
> support 
> the war.
>  
> > And then there's Detroit. 
> > 
> > The British couldn't possibly have enough forces
> in 
> Canada to challenge the 
> > Union, which is, population and industry wise, a 
> 600 pound Gorilla. It's 
> > unlikely enough that Britain would have ever 
> recognized the CSA (They needed 
> > the US more than they needed the CSA's cotton),
> but 
> that's fairly acceptable. 
> > But attacking the Union? Mind-bogglingly unlikely 
> and very risky. I don't buy 
> > that the Union couldn't take Detroit back, either.
>  
> > 
> 
> I think I remember reading somewhere that the
> british 
> forces that are occupy detroit were formally 
> stationed in africa and are useing that same control
> 
> tactics as they did there, shooting civilian
> hostages 
> in retaliation to attacks on british troops.
> I cannot see the union tolerating such atrocities or
> 
> even the occupation of american soil by a british 
> troops even without such action, with such actions I
> 
> would question even confederate approval.
> For a opposing view of british troops invading 
> america during the cival war, and how both sides 
> might react, try reading turtledove's "stars and 
> stripes in peril".
> 

I did.  It seemed a bit "high concept" to put it
mildly.  A more realistic interperatation would be
Harry Turtledove's "How Few Remain."

> While I agree with other post that the brits are a 
> major power at the time of deadlands and could
> easily 
> take the union in coperation with the confederatecy,
> 
> I would have to point out that the brits are built
> up 
> as a power for a reason. The brits are a empire with
> 
> a whole world of small subject nations who would
> like 
> to rebel, as well as a number of other nations who 
> would love to take a bit out of the brit powerbase
> by 
> destroying british ships and troops, or taking 
> british soil. The brits can not commit too much of 
> its power to a land war in which they themselves are
> 
> only periphally involved.
> 

Exactly.  Victorian Great Britain was primarily a
naval/trade power.

> Plus the brits are a conquering empire, If I was a 
> citizen of the confederation I would be a bit
> nervous 
> of a massive millitary conquest of the union by the 
> brits, with the british holding canada, and major 
> parts of the industrial union it would only be a 
> matter of time before they started looking for
> things 
> to do with their troops further south.
> 

The British conquests that occurred were made against
foes that were vastly inferior technologically.  From
those conquered foes, the British raised up
"trustworthy" administrators to aid in governing the
indigenous populace.  There's no way that the British
could conquer the Union .  It's bigger than they are
and at least (if not more) technologically and
militarily advanced) Aside from which, it isn't
necessary to launch a full-scale attack to aid the
Confederacy - all they have to do is threaten.

The British have the most powerful navy in the world
at this point.  They also have colonies all over the
world.  They can use that navy to threaten a blockade
against many Union ports, threaten to shell various
coastal cities and threaten to land troops anywhere
along the rich Union coastal cities.  In order to
defend against this possibility, the Union must
maintain sizeable defenses and garrisons over a very
large area.  At the same time, they must also
defend/attack the South.  The Union troops have to be
"everywhere" and everywhere is a large space to
defend.  So, they won't have immediate access to
troops capable of liberating Detroit.  Or of
conquering the Souix nations, which isn't necessary as
long as they have decent access to the ghost rock of
the Black Hills.  Trade is generally more profitable
than war.  

So, because their power is spread so thin over such a
large area (and has been for a long, bloody time), the
Union isn't able to use its great resources to score
the "knockout punches" that it needs to do.  

s

p

o

i

l

e

r

s

Of course, now that "Davis" has been killed and their
is a cease-fire between North and South, the North
might well be able to concentrate its strength a
little better.  In which case there may soon be a
reckoning with the British... 

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=====
"I am Justice.  I am Fate.  I am what happens totinpot scum like yourselves when you begin to sufferfrom delusions of adequacy.  I am the Shithammer ofGod swinging down from Heaven to smash you back intothe wastelands that spawned you.  There comes a timewhen fear, greed and evil must be redressed.  The timeis now, the place is here and God help anyone who getsin my way." - Malachi Shepherd

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