RE: RE: d20 Initiative (was [DL] Re: [WW] Re: Systems [VeeringOT])

["Clint Black" <cblack@ohtinc.com>]

>Well I didnt originally post this thread but Ill be happy to take it up
>for a bit. AHEM. Using initiative is necessary to gain the advantage on
>the opponent. If for instance I have a 19, and Clint has a 12, I can
>shoot Clint dead before he can move. And if Clint has to spend this
>round drawing his gun and I know my initiative will be higher than his
>if I can refocus, then I would do so. You see that way I go before him.
>If I go first and I can make him dead, then he dies, and I dont. Why is
>this so novel a concept? It is all about having the immediate reaction.
>Further if I cast a spell that takes 2 rounds to complete, I want it
>going off at the top so that my spell goes off before the bad guy can
>get away. Movement is why initiative matters.


I'm sorry it just doesn't work for me.  If you have a 19 and I have a 12,
you shoot; I die.  Fine that works for the first round of combat.

But if it is reversed and I go first (with say a 19 to your 12), your
example says I have to spend my action drawing my gun.  Okay, I can go with
that.  But why do you refocus when you can just as easily shoot me on 12,
and I am just as dead.  Your action takes place before my action whether it
is on 12 of this round or 20 of the next.  In fact, you could almost
consider your 12 to be equal to the highest initiative of the next round
plus 12.

The spell example doesn't work for me either.  If you refocus, you give
everyone with an initiative less than yours an extra action to move which
could lead to more problems with your range/area on the spell.  Say if you
go on 12 and the bad guys go on 19, 11, and 6, your action on 12 of Round 1
is to refocus.  On 11 and 6, two bad guys move.  On 20 of the Round 2, you
begin casting the two round spell.  The bad guys get a move this round and
next round.  On 20 of Round 4, your spell finally goes off.

Now if you had begun casting on 12 of Round 1 instead of refocusing, your
spell would have gone off on 12 of Round 3.  The bad guys on 11 and 6 would
not have gotten that last two actions in Round 3 which could have taken them
out of range or put them close enough to disrupt your spell.


>Well now that I have addressed that to the best of my ability, I would
>like to share something with the list. I have decided to implement
>cards into my initiative rounds for D20. I have the rules all decided,
>and it includes splitting movement over the number of cards you draw,
>and all bonuses to initiative become bonus's to the draw instead. When
>I have more time I will post these to the list provided there are some
>interested.

This sounds cool.  Sign me up for interested!

>I realize many of you believe strongly in Deadlands, but just respect
>the fact that we love it to. I dont care if you want your players to
>throw horse puckey at eachother for initiative, its all a game we love
>so go easy on the "I cant stand D20" rants. Frankly D20 is easier to
>use and a lot more fluid than regular Deadlands, but I dont think that
>matters a lot. Anyway I hope you all take to heart the idea that we
>play deadlands the setting, story, world. Not just DL the game
>mechanics.


Go back to my original post on this topic, Kevin.  From what I understand
it's hard to read (sorry again), but at the end you'll see that...  Ah,
heck, I'll just paste the part in here of what I said:

>>Anyway, I have no desire to start any kind of attack against d20 as a
whole.  I'm playing in a d20 game myself.  But I do think this is a
>>weakness in the system.  I'd love to see initiative feats, actions, or
house rules that actually work with the initiative system if anybody has
>>them.

This was not an "I can't stand D20" rant.  It was an "I can't stand this
mechanic of d20, here is my reasoning, and does anyone have a better way of
doing it" rant.  :)

I know there is a lot of criticism of d20 out there (and a lot of pure
prejudice too), but if we can't come on this list with a problem about game
mechanics, get a reasonable discussion, and perhaps get lucky enough to find
a solution, then half of its usefulness just dissipates.  I don't think a
rant about d20 initiative is any less valid than a rant on Fannin' in
original Deadlands.  Both have led to useful ideas for my games.  One of
which is your use of cards in initiative.  :)


Clint Black

"You smell that? Do you smell that? ...Ghost Rock, son. Nothing else in the
world smells like that. I love the smell of ghost rock in the morning. You
know, one time we had a hill bombed, for twelve hours. When it was all over
I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' Yank body. The
smell, you know that sulphurous smell, the whole hill. Smelled like...
victory. Someday this war's gonna end..."