Re: [DL] deadlands D20

[John Goodrich <Qusoor@monkeybrains.net>]

    My, my, quite the flamestorm I started.
    First of all, my apologies to Ron Conner.  After rereading my initial post,
it's definitely more harsh and seems more directed at him than I initially
intended.  The post was not directed at you, but at the d20 system, so any
offence I have caused to you was unintentional.  I've got to stop posting from
work.
    I dislike d20 because of the basic philosophy behind it.  I'm a big Cthulhu
fan, and one of the reasons for that is because of the basic philosophy.  In
CoC, you're human.  Sure, you can be Deep One, or Tcho-Tcho if the Keeper has a
yen for the wierd, but at no time can your character do anything that is
superhuman.  No matter how long and hard you practice, a shotgun blast at close
range is likely to take your head off.  No matter how many books you plunder
from the Starry Wisdom Cult, a well-aimed baseball bat is going to cause
significant discomfort.  This is realism.  Being bound to reality forces the
player to think more carefully about what they're about to do.  Your eighth
level fighter can wade through a gang of ten punks like Rambo without a
jockstrap, but you never will.  The true irony is that the statistics in both
D&D and CoC's basic role-playing system are virtually identical.  What a
difference attitude makes.
    Unfortunately, many people want to play out the larger-than-life antics of
today's movie or computer game heroes, so they demand it from their game.
"Bigger than life" is what they want.  Setting aside various psychological
issues, I often think that game "power" is an excuse not to think.  It's easier
to hack your through that street gang than to have to think of a way around
them.  If you're powerful, you can lay down a deadly hail of bullets while
standing in the open, rather than having to think about the best way to face
your oponent.  Being more powerful than your opponents often means that you
don't have to play--you can just kick down the front door and start killin'.
The rewards of this are certain--there you are, amid a pile of bodies.  You did
the deed, you killed a bunch of abominations/orks/genestealers, and you're still
alive.  But think how much more satisfying it would have been if they had been a
serious threat.  To overcome the weak is one thing, but to overcome a superior
foe by your wits is a tremendous feeling.  More interestingly, this sort of
thing gets easier as you do it.
   I honestly don't know if D&D3E encouraged munchkanism.  But I can tell you
that there aren't a lot of munchkins in either Deadlands or CoC.  It doesn't
help you much.  What, your 95 year-old (those extra education points!) has a 99%
shotgun skill?  Fat load of good it'll do her when she faces a Formless Spawn of
a shoggoth!
    Also, listen to the ways people talk about their D&D characters.  It has
always been about their stats.  I unload x points of damage per round.  I've got
a +12 hackmaster.  Seldom do you hear about their achievements.  "Did you hear
about the time she killed a vampire with a lobster fork?"  'This is the
character that didn't go insane when we went through that portal to Carcossa."
Think about the difference in that.
    Buit worst of all is the straightjacketing, illogical, judgemental morality
that D&D espouses.  If you're good, you are perfectly justified in murdering
baby orks in their sleep because they're evil.  If you're a Paladin, it's your
job.  With CoC and Deadlands, you're on the side of Humanity, because the Other
Side really is foul, and determined to corrupt humanity.  We aren't just told
their evil, we're shown it.   Orks just happen to believe that might mkes right.

    And finally, this 'feat' stuff makes me ROTFLMAO.  Green Knight is talking
about reprinting  "Rude Tales and Glorious," and then more of you will get the
following line:

"O, these weakling youths do bethink themselves well feated can they but make a
maiden blush with their puny efforts...  Yea, e'en though they o'erpass the just
limits of feating and shame themselves they would not dare to hold a candle to
Sir Bohort!"

    Any questions?

    John Goodrich