Re: [WW] Sherman Tank vs. Purple Worm

["nvdoyle" <nvdoyle@home.com>]

Alan Kellogg writes...

> Let us not forget that great, gaping hole that is a purple worm's mouth.
Plant a >round of HE down it and you'll get a twitching, headless corpse.

Location-specific damage - called shot for Critical hit results? Ow.

> For real fun, try a later model Sherman with an upgraded 76, or a British
Firefly >(modified Sherman) with a 17 pounder.

Tiger II. Come an' get it...

Matt Smith writes...

>I just don't buy it: the worm is Gargantuan, the tank is Huge; the worms
>outmasses the tank several times, and has teeth that can chew through solid
>rock. The worm should have some reasonable chance beyond a critical to hurt
>the Sherman.

Counterpoint - although the worm can chew through solid rock, those jaws are
not high-velocity projectiles, and cast steel might be harder to damage in
that manner, crushing. However...

>. If you want a little more of an even match up then something needs to be
>adjusted.

That seems to be the question, what kind of results are we looking for?
What -is- an even match for a Sherman, or a King Tiger, in the Monster
Manual? And should we limit ourselves to the strict comparison of damage v.
armor? What about the Worm Bull Rushing from below, or other tactics? Maybe
it -isn't- balanced...but, that's very much a personal DM/PC decision.

>By the way, a Sherman is too big for a standard purple worm to swallow :)

I knew that, really I did. :)

>A standard purple worm has an AC of 19, 15 of that natural armor. If it
were a >vehicle instead of a monster, with an Armor rating instead of
natural armor, it >would have an AC of 4!

Well, how did the Sherman get an AC of 15 then? With a -2 due to size, and
no Dex mods, shouldn't it be 8? That's where I extrapolated the +7 armor
bonus from. I think that the Armor Rating and the PVs are representative of
the armor's ability to stand up to damage -much- better than pre-industrial
materials, and the effects of very high velocity projectiles, respectively.
It doesn't exactly work, because d20 models accuracy and penetration in the
same number, which is - not perfect. It's one of my bigger gripes, really.
But, it can be fudged, in a lot of ways. The fact that the Worm has an Armor
bonus of -twice- that of a Sherman is a pretty big plus, I'd think, in it's
favor. I'm willing to accept the higher 'D&D' ACs, in exchange for the PV
and AV of the 'WW2' vehicles. However, I'm loathe to give the 'D&D' monsters
with DR the bonus that pistols and most rifles give to vehicle AVs.

For comparison, a Purple Worm's bite can't hurt an Iron Golem, either - but
it's Large, and could be swallowed and dissolved, albeit slowly. There's
precedent for big things made of metal to not be hurt by much (50/+3 DR on
that Golem). Also - magical and energy attacks might not be stopped by PV at
all - if it's sealed up, a Fireball won't get in, maybe - I could think of a
few ways to get around the hatches being closed. But a Lightning Bolt, and
if PV is similar to DR, a Magic Missile blasts right on through. Granted, it
might not stop an AFV in it's tracks, but that's damage right to the 'HP' of
the thing. Another ramification, if we follow that line of thought -
creatures -with- a DR can do damage right through an AFV's PV as well, or
some of it - as they are considered to be able to defeat their own DR. Is a
+1 enough to defeat all PVs? The Iron Golem has a 50/+3 - does it do
straight damage, as the +3 would defeat any PV it encountered, like any DR
equivalent or lower? I can't find anywhere in the WW book where it talks
about this possibility....and while Clint Black's idea seems pretty slick, I
don't like changing the ACs between the 'systems'.

Noah