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Re: [pyrnet] This Pyr almost looks like a red roan?

Wow, it's too funny that you should send that particular link. My friend Jess created that genetics website. She and I know each other through the P.F. Magic "Petz" games, where we both use hexadecimal editors to create many new breeds of dogs for the game. She and I created the various Great Pyrenees files that are available. The online community that plays the game has been around for... about fifteen years? Many of us (including myself) are in our early twenties now, but about ten years ago, one woman (Lyn) created what's known as the Petz Kennel Club, where we would compete with our pixel dogs (who walk around the screen and breath and so on) in dog shows that are set up very much like the AKC's shows... BOB, BOS, G1-G4, and BIS are awarded... and the dogs accrue major and minor points towards their Ch. titles. Here's one of my Pyrs, for example: http://petzkennelclub.co.uk/pet.php?pet=115769

For many of us--myself included--this was a way of getting to participate in the dog show world while we were still children and couldn't have our own real life show dogs. Now, while we may still compete in the shows, many stick around for the community we've built... and now that we're graduating college/entering the "real world," we're beginning to have our own show dogs! We meet up at shows to support each other when we're in the ring. I loved getting to see one of my friends on TV at the Kennel Club of Philadelphia show, and will definitely be watching for them when I watch Westminster.



Well, dorkiness aside.... in the link you sent, Jess writes, "The main way to tell a dog with extreme white spotting (s^w ) apart from a dog with phaeomelanin dilution (c^e ) is to look at the pigment on the nose, lips and eyerims. A dog with extreme white spotting is likely to be missing some pigment in these areas, so they will be partly or completely *pink*. A dog with phaeomelanin dilution will have solid black in all these areas (possibly with a dudley nose, which are common on dogs with dilution - see the nose page)."

I agree that all the evidence indicates that Pyrs have extreme white spotting going on.... so then why do Pyrs seem to be thoroughly pigmented in these areas? Is that simply due to selectively breeding for fully-pigmented lips and nose?

I still don't have a good understanding of roaning, and if that's what's going on with that dog, why would it pop up so infrequently. Surely there must be others out there? I guess it does seem like (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Pyrs here in the US tend to have less pigment (in terms of coat color) than their counterparts across the pond, and maybe that's why I haven't seen it?


*Andréa deCarlo*
http://www.andorrawebdesign.com

On 2/7/2011 5:04 AM, Tracy Bassett wrote:
<<There, they claim that he is not arrouye, rather they dub him a "red head." >>

If you read farther down the thread, note senior European judges/authorities such as Alain Pecoult and Guido Massimello consider him Arrouye.

<< I don't know a lot about arrouye, but I thought it was a dark red-rust color (that darkens with age unlike most Pyr pigmentation). >>

Sort of. Arrouye doesnt fade. It is possibly EE. The presence of a melanistic mask (E^m E^m ) can be debated I guess.

But remember that other colours can stay dark too. Heavy markings are not that uncommon in the breed.

<<I did think that it had to do with the color of the markings showing under the extreme white spotting pattern....>>

That is right. The best theory currently is that Pyreneans have an extreme white spotting pattern (s^w ^). This website illustrates well how the coat colour patterns manifest: http://abnormality.purpleflowers.net/genetics/white.htm

<<Wouldn't roan affect the visibly pigmented areas of the dog, rather than the white that covers up the pigment?>>

Dogs with a roaning pattern (T locus) are generally born white (extreme white spotting) and then develop the colour pattern later - on the white areas. It is opposite to Pyreneans which generally are born with stronger colour which fades. The white on a Pyrenean will stay white.

Tracy Bassett
Espinay Pyrenean Mountain Dogs
"Putting te Breed before breeding"
Gunning NSW Australia
mobile: 0412167278
email: info@espinay.com
web: www.espinay.com






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