Hi Victoria,
The "perfect storm," sounds right. It sounds like the vet tacked Athena's stomach. Most of our Pyrs have been picky, slow eaters and not real gulpers like Danes and Mastiffs can be. I know several Dane owners who have their dog's stomach tacked during the spay or neuter. My sister has and has always had Malamutes and several years ago she started having her dogs tacked when they are young. In fact, I never heard of stomach tacking until my sister mentioned it with her dogs. I understand it considerably decreases the chance of torsion but the dog can still bloat. The decision to stomach tack when a dog is young seems to be based on breed traits and heredity - and I'm glad that isn't a real factor for Pyrs, at least to that degree.
I am glad you are finally starting to feel some relief now that Athena wants to do something she used to do like play.
Take care and be well,
Christine & Kodiak
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victoria Fernandez" <vic.toria@cox.net>
To: pyrnet-l@pyrnet.org
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2009 12:18:10 PM
Subject: Re: [pyrnet] Scary Medical Emergency
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----- Original Message -----From: ChristineSent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 11:43 PMSubject: Re: [pyrnet] Scary Medical EmergencyHi Manny
I am glad Athena seems ok so far. I'd read that gastric torsion is a life-threatening, critical emergency. I haven't read or heard much about the recovery process since I'm not really sure I have ever heard of anyone actually catching gastric torsion in time enough to save their dog. It sounds as if it is still hit and miss, so my prayers and hopes are with Athena.
We lost one of our Pyrs to the 'bloat' about 10 years ago. We had three Newfs, a Bouvier and a Pyr. My husband and I went on a long run and came home to find our 8-year old Pyr crawled in his dog house to die. We later find out the cause.The mistake we made was allowing our dogs to self-feed.
Back then we had only a peripheral understanding about bloat. To this day I cannot believe how niave we were. I consider myself knowledgeable on the subject now. From then on eating became a focused and structured activity at our house. I prepare our dogs meals and of course our subsequent Pyrs had to eat separately anyway. It is the quirkiest habit; I know, but to this day I burp my dogs after they eat. Now we just have our 20-month old pup Kodiak and he is used to it.
Take care Manny and love to Athena
Christine
PS I have seen those emergency bloat kits and they are pretty daunting. They are more for gastric-dilation volvulus (not torsion) and believe there is a rubber hose, a bore needle and some other things. I think it takes a practiced and skilled person to use one so I really just keep in mind the preventative measures.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amy Bailey" <amy.bailey@myfairpoint.net>
To: pyrnet-l@pyrnet.org
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2009 1:04:13 PM
Subject: RE: [pyrnet] Scary Medical EmergencyThank goodness you noticed something was different. It is so easy to be tired and just not observe a small change â Athenaâs guardian angel was watching! Please let us all know how her recovery proceeds and thanks for the info so we all consider bloat if we see a change.
BTW does the vet recommend the preventative surgery for all Pyrs or for relatives of dogs who have had bloat?
Amy with Charlie, Sweetie and Harry Pugger
From: owner-pyrnet-l@pyrnet.org [mailto:owner-pyrnet-l@pyrnet.org] On Behalf Of Manny Fernandez, Jr.
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:34 PM
To: pyrnet-l-digest@pyrnet.org
Subject: [pyrnet] Scary Medical Emergency
Well we took the parental units up to Prescott, AZ to see my Wife's Sister
and her Husband. Had a great time. We rented a minivan and drove up there
stopping in Palm Springs for a night so Victoria's parents could see some of
their old friends. We took Athena and stayed at a Marriott Residence Inn.
So Prescott was kind of fun. We returned on Sunday-dropped off the parents
and took back the minivan. We had given her water throughout the trip
home, but the air seemed very dry. The trip each way was about 450 miles.
We had an area where Athena could stand or sit or lay down (though she was
never comfortable enough to lay down for any amount of time in the Van. She
tends to be somewhat shy and nervous.
Got home about 9 pm and we gave Athena some water to drink. She was really
thirsty and drank the water up quickly then went outside. We noticed that
she was lying on the grass which is typical for her. She moved around a bit
and then came in. Victoria noticed what she thought was foam coming out of
her mouth. Athena kind of moved around the house and finally got on her
couch. Victoria said something seemed wrong like she was bloated. Victoria
called the Vet Hospital and asked some questions. We were aware that bloat
can become a real problem if not treated. They suggested that perhaps we
should bring her in to check and make sure she wasn't suffering from bloat
or what they call gastric torsion. Bloat can be caused by eating too
quickly trapping air in their stomachs. Anyway Athena seemed to be
comfortable on the sofa. I looked up bloat on the internet and read the
details out loud. We were both kind of concerned because it can be really
dangerous. We checked her stomach and it was really hard, which is one of
the symptoms. Bloat and gastric torsion is where the stomach twists and
cuts off blood to the stomach and other organs.
We decided to make her get up and go get into the car. We drove to the Vet
Hospital. They said they needed to take some x-rays and so we agreed and I
signed a credit card voucher for $300.00. The Vet came back out and said
yes she was suffering from gastric torsion. Her stomach had rotated or
twisted inside cutting off the blood supply. We had less than 30 minutes to
operate or she would expire. The Vet asked us if we wanted them to operate
and of course we said yes please go forward. I gave them my credit card and
signed for $5000.00 so that they could begin.
They first had to stabilize her blood pressure so that they could give her
the required anesthesia. We waited around for about an hour. They told us
to go home and that they would call. We should expect to hear around 11:30.
I called in about 11:30 and she was still in surgery. At 1:30 am the Vet
called and said that they had removed her spleen because it may have been
damaged by the lack of blood and pressure of the stomach against it. My
heart just stopped. I knew that if they had to remove any of her stomach
because of a lack of blood that she would only have a 50% chance of
recovery. Fortunately, they did not have to remove any of the stomach. The
Vet did say her stomach was very red and looked angry but felt that none of
the tissue had died. Timing is everything, so had we been there a bit
later, I am sure we would have lost her. She said the next 24 hours were of
concern. We asked if we could come see her in the morning and the Vet said
yes that would be possible.
So on Monday about 10 am we went to the hospital and saw her. She was under
heavy sedation but recognized us. She had a incision that looked about 15
inches long in her stomach area. We hadn't sleep very well the night
before. I studied her condition on the internet which just freaked me out.
We ended up coming back again that evening and talked to the doctor 3 or 4
times. So Monday evening the Vet indicated that she might be able to come
home if they could get her to eat and drink (insuring that her stomach was
ok). Athena often refuses to eat when she is not with us. So we were a
little concerned. She was being given fluids and medications through her
two IVs but they needed to make sure she could handle food before letting
her go home.
Around 6 am today Tuesday the Vet called and said that they tried everything
to get her to eat. They boiled chicken, tried all kinds of dog food but no
dice. The Vet understood that Athena was nervous and decided that we should
come get her and take her home. So that is what we did. She has been
sleeping now most all of the day. We gave her a small amount of special dog
food (Science Diet ID) and she ate it. So we are hoping all is ok. For the
next 14 days she can not run around or go upstairs etcetera. After fourteen
days we can have the staples removed from her stomach.
To prevent the gastric torsion from happening again they attached her
stomach to the muscle tissue to prevent rotation. She can still get bloat
(trapping of air in her stomach) but her stomach should not rotate. We
don't know what caused the rotation. The Vet thought that her spleen may
have been enlarged, however there were no signs of tumor, or other tell tale
signs of common problems.
I am still dumbfounded that this whole event occurred in the first place.
One of the reasons I am telling you all about this is that apparently it is
common in large breed, deep-chested dogs. The Vet said that in the last few
years they have perfected a minimal operation where they attach the stomach
wall inside the body to prevent the rotation. They only require about a
1/2 inch incision and it can be done even when a young dog is being
neutered. Go figure! Had we lost her I think both of us would have just
been devastated. She after all is our daughter.
It is Thursday and Athena seems a bit better. We have been giving her the
medications prescribed. The pain killers knock her out and she sleeps. We
decided to pull back a bit on the pain killers so that she is more alert.
She is able to pee so that is good. The Vet said that she probably will not
eliminate for 4 to 5 days. The Pain pills also cause constipation so we are
a little concerned. We will monitor her very carefully to see that she is
not in any pain.
We were always aware of Bloat but never thought it would happen to her. She
free feeds and never really eats a lot at one time. She does drink a lot
when she wants water though. We have to be careful about that. I strongly
recommend that everyone on this forum check into this situation so that you
are aware and know what to look for. It is a silent killer that can happen
in two hours.
Manny