Re: [pyrnet] Help! Scary neurological incident

[SovreignPyrs@aol.com]

In a message dated 2/9/02 8:13:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, bamb@monmouth.com 
writes:

<< Dogs don't have strokes. >>
I have to take exception to this blanket statement.  Since I have lost two 
Beagles to strokes it is definitely something that can kill a dog.  I have 
two post- mortem reports on both dogs ,both list stroke as cause of death.  
They were 14 & 15 yrs old respectively when this all started happening.

I've also caught these same two dogs having a stroke and rushed them to the 
emergency vet twice before their actual death.  There is nothing you can do 
to prevent them, you have to hope to God you're there to see it when it 
happens, and you have to find the underlying cause.  Both males had two of 
these incidents prior to their death, that we got them through.  We were 
lucky and bought a little time.  Not enough time to figure out the underlying 
problem though, and we lost them anyway. But 6 years later we are smarter, 
and we've learned a lot from the PM reports.  A shame I had to lose two very 
good dogs before we figured out the entire scenario.  Now I don't know that 
Pyrs and Beagles have that much in common, BUT given the fact that the Pyr 
has such a low body metabolism, I'd say some could be sitting ducks for this 
without people being aware of what is really happening.  At any rate given 
any neurological symtoms in any dog at this house, a full blood panel to 
include full thyroid panel is cheap insurance in my book.  It rules in a 
lot,or rules out a lot, its easy to do, and quick.  

A current male now 13, started the same thing.  I was lucky and found a very 
smart vet 6 years ago who thought to look at the thyroid panel on this old 
guy.  They will have a stroke when the heartrate drops low, allowing the 
clots to form.  Its simply a matter of time until its fatal.  This recent 
fellow I found flat out in his crate, nearly unresponsive, gasping.  I rushed 
him to the vet, he gave him atropine by mouth under the tongue to increase 
his heartrate, and Karo syrup for quick energy to stop the crisis.  Heparin 
to disolve any clots formed.

We then did a complete thyroid panel.  (The thyroid controls and regulates 
many body systems remember).  This male had a complete thyroid panel in 
November done by Jean Dodds, so we knew we had an accurate comparison.  He 
was mid line normal in November at 13 yrs of age.  So this would not be 
something I would have thought of.  When the new panel came back next morning 
it showed almost total shutdown of the thyroid, hense his quick dive into a 
stroke.  We started thyroid medication immediately, and have not had another 
incident so far.

The bottom line is these dogs are disoriented and uncoordinated if they are 
able to walk.  But one so far gone as old Amos was, is not even going to be 
able to raise his head.  And yes, the two previous dogs did a bit of 
staggering, listing to one side, and holding their head slightly off.

But PLEASE don't assume epilepsy in these cases, it could cost your dogs 
life.  These dogs heart rate drops to about 40-45 beats per minute during one 
of these incidents.  They are literally barely alive. In Amos's case I was 
looking at a dying dog, no way it looked like a seizure.  It was more serious 
than that.  I was taught how to check the pulse, and I knew we were in a 
major crisis.  The dog was literally gasping for his last breaths.  With 
beagles we have epilepsy too, and their symtomology is totally different.  In 
fact the one rescue beagle we had who seizured regularly, and every other one 
I know their heart races, many pant and are excitable.  Constantly moving, 
walking, walking , and more walking.  

I'm hoping I explained this clear enough to at least point your vet in the 
right direction.  Given the number of old Pyrs I hear about who seem to die 
quietly in their sleep, I have to wonder if a yearly thyroid panel would have 
shown something that would have prevented it.  I think body systems start to 
shut down in old age, its just natural.  And I have to tell you in no way 
would I have thought this very active male was a low thyroid dog.  He just 
did not fit that either.  But we live and learn that the thing we thought 
impossible, may just be possible.  I've learned to keep an open mind on these 
things.

Sharon Hodgdon
Bradenton FL