Re: [PyrNet-L] BREDDING:American verses French

[judith diamond <pyrenees@gwi.net>]

JGentzel@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 4/28/99 5:59:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bamb@monmouth.com writes:
>
> <<  They are entitled to their opinions also. Most good breeders
>  want to breed a dog that is structurally correct, with good
>  temperament and as few health problems as is humanly possible. Anyone
>
>  who is going to decide to breed should do their homework in these
>  areas. I'd rather see a Pyr that is coarse headed and with too much
>  bone than one who is elegant and lovely headed but with major
>  structural defects or health problems. >>
>
> It is not really an either or proposition relative size and soundness.
>
> Soundness is not just absence of genetic problems like dysplasia.  It
> is
> movement and structure confirmation more IMHO.  While we have
> developed the
> best moving pyrs in the world here in the North America we have lost
> size and
> a lot of type.  I think many of us agree that if you no longer have
> the type
> or size, you may have crossed the line relative the attributes of the
> breed.
> We have instead gone with large bone and heavy bodies as a substitute
> and
> attempt to keep size.  This at the expense of elegance.  They are not
> the
> same.  There is a middle ground that the breeders who study and really
>
> understand can work toward.
>
> <<Sometimes they may look a little
> different than what we may envision to be the "perfect" Pyrenees but
> to each breeder the interpretation of the standard may be a little
> different than what ours may be. You know what you like, I know what I
>
> like and someone else knows what they like.>>
>
> Without meaning to be critical at all of your comments, I believe this
> is at
> the core of the problem.  Many do know what they like and it is not
> necessarily Pyrenean in nature.  Many have no clue what is correct to
> begin
> with. Look at the old pictures of Estat and his brother Estagel.  Look
> at any
> picture of a "de Soum" dog and you know this is the type that is the
> Great
> Pyrenees.  Look at the head.  Is it flat on top?  Are the supraorbital
> ridges
> apparent?  Is there a furrow between the eyes?  Do the eyes droop or
> are they
> round?  Do the ears sit above the level of the eyes?  Does the skin
> from the
> upper jaw hang below the lower jaw?  The stop or too much of it is a
> result
> of the above traits i.e. is these are correct chances are there will
> be no
> apparent stop as the standard prescribes.



> These are the primary problems I
> see in type both here and abroad, but much more common here.  Almost
> to the
> point that it is accepted in many quarters as correct.

    Hello,    Thanks Joe!
    This is exactly what I meant in my original post. I really needed to
hear that from you with your expertise. In fact it was due to one of
your very recent post's here that got me 'finally' typing about my deep
concearn of this vital pyr issue to begin with. So, thanks twice!!
    If I, a non-show/non-proffessional breeder, I who has who *only*
been to 2  Great Pyrenees Grand Nationals,  spoken with what many
proffessional pyr breeders, have attended very few dog show's and seen
and studied the majority of pyrs by art, internet, photos and
happanstance, can see these things, what is stopping more experienced
pyr people from making these same observations and asking the same
questions?
    I mean, I am most certain that this is and can be a hot topic, but,
do they just not do it  that much of this within a pyr newsletter?
    Yours always in pyr spirit,
    Judith, Jonah & Lexi

>
>