[PyrNet-L] Flock Guardian Pyr Problem - quotes correction

[MagEBroD@aol.com]

Judith,
   I am not sure if you were aware of it or not, but in the post that began
like this next little bit I quoted you made it sound like it was one person
you were replying to, instead of a number of people.  Some things you quoted
were posted by me, but many were not. and quite frankly I do NOT want credit
for some of those statements!  I know it can get confusing, but we should try
to be very clear when quoting as to who the original poster of what you are
quoting was. Following is first the heading from your post(underlined) that I
am referring to so you will know which I am referring to. I am not sending
your post as it is too long. And I'd be duplicating things. Following the
heading of your post in question I am reprinting the other posts, the first
quote being from Cindy Henke and in normal font. The last long quote is my
actual post in bold italics,(Janice Vocke's - MagEBroD@aol.com's) that you
also quoted parts of.  Hope this helps to clarify who said what.
Janice Vocke
 MagEBroD@aol.com

Forwarded heading of your post.:
In a message dated 12/20/98 9:03:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, pyrenees@gwi.net
writes:
<< Subj:	 [PyrNet-L] Flock Guardian Pyr Problem
 Date:	12/20/98 9:03:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
 From:	pyrenees@gwi.net (judith diamond)
 Sender:	owner-pyrnet-l@pyrnet.org
 
Part of Cindy Henke's post you quoted:
In a message dated 12/18/98 6:11:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, clhenke@juno.com
writes: 
<< If your children find food or clothing or anything else for that matter
 in someones swimming pool, more power to them.  There is a distinct
 difference in walking up to someones front door, or trespassing the rest
 of their property, and evidently a lot of you fail to distinguish the
 difference.  I just bet your the type of folks who would sue, if your kid
 fell in the same pool that they had no business being anywhere near.  But
 the owners of the pool MUST provide multiple fencing on his own property
 to keep these same kids out, and in the end, will probably still be sued!
  This applies to the dogs as well  Now unless you know of someone with a
 moat around the front of their property, that a person would fall into
 while walking up to your front door, I consider anything else trespass! 
 I don't think anyone DESERVES to fall in a pool, or be bit by a dog. 
 Both are events that happen.  I frankly am amazed at how irate everyone
 has become in defense of rude or unmanageable children, maybe that is why
 there are so many....people defend the behavior! 
Cindy Henke>>>>


The following is my post - Janice Vocke (MagEBroD@aol.com):
 << The part of your post I was referring to was not the "pool" part, since
that had NOTHING to do with the original post about people on someone else's
property. I was referring to the "their kid wouldn't be"  <snip> "on property
that is not their own" part.  Since you used a comma between the pool part and
the "property that is not their own" part & since the original post was about
someone being on someone else's property that was not their own when bit by
the property owner's dog, and since there were comments about how someone
could even shoot someone for trespassing on their property in their state,
this was what I was referring to. But since this is what you want so
desperately to argue then so be it! I was referring to good moral reasons
involving helping their community that some youth may go on another's
property!!  I made this abundantly clear! I was pointing out how just because
someone sets foot on another's property that does not mean they are
misbehaving or that they deserve to be bit or shot!! Same for adults doing
their jobs that involve going on another's property!  I was pointing out how
vicious dogs (and people shooting at people that come on their property!)
could hurt someone that has a decent reason for being there, too.  I
understand your frustration over owning a pool.  I have had an above-the
-ground pool myself.  I had to make sure, if we were not in the pool, that the
ladder was put away at all times so no child could get in it and also have a
locking cover over it and make sure there were inflated things under the cover
to make sure if a child somehow got up on the cover that the child could not
still end up drowning. Plus numerous signs and
symbols about danger!  Also signs and symbols warning that it is shallow and
should not dived into. (Now have one of these in my bathtub, too!!  LOL!! As a
joke!) These were extra expenses, true. Yet a pool is a dangerous thing and an
attractive nuisance in that it is a kid magnet.  One should also consider the
needed expenses/ hassles of making the pool safe before they consider getting
a pool.  If you cannot afford them, then you cannot afford to have a pool, in
my opinion!  Once a child drowns it is too late! It is worth taking some
precautions and expenses to prevent that!! I must admit my mind is boggled
that someone cares more about vicious dogs that bite than about protecting and
preventing children drowning in their pool!  I for one do not want this list
being one of the lists and groups to blame when in the future IF this dog was
allowed to live and it attacked another kid later!!  Nothing makes one madder
than finding out after someone is badly hurt or killed that it happened before
and someone let the person (or dog in this case) go to repeat the viloence
again.  It always seems even more tragic then and even more of a waste and
makes you mad at those involved in letting the violent one go.
   And to respond to your comment that you "bet (we) are the type of folks
that would sue, if (our) kid fell in the same pool that they had no business
being anywhere near."  Hopefully it is based on the fact that I am a
conscientious person and raise my kids up to be the same way and that we think
one should not endanger others or hurt innocent people or animals. I am not
someone who sues people a lot.  18 times when I or my kids were injured on
others' property or in car accidents we did not sue!  We usually paid for
medical expenses out of our own pocket. However there have been a few times
that I had the person's insurance co. pay medical expenses:  One dog bite
(Viciously attacked by a dog when I went to purchase furniture from someone
who had an ad to sell them and knew I was coming at exactly that time to look
at them), and one car accident where the guy was drunk and on drugs and ran a
stop sign going over 90 mph and they determined he was going over 100 mph when
he applied his brakes!  I did get one private day care providor's license to
do day care taken away when I exposed the fact that her son had sexually
abused 7 kids in her care, though. I have had a few people sent to prison and
jail, too.  Some things are negligent if you do things to endanger others. I
would not keep a dangerous dog! Especially one who had bitten before!  If for
some bizarre reason someone chose to then they should be kept under lock and
key or muzzled,  where others,  even others on their property, cannot get to
the dog unless the owner has complete control over the dog. And YES I feel the
same way about PEOPLE!!  If they are dangerous to others they should be locked
up and kept away from the public!!  Or be put to death, especially if they
have killed before.  I have been to far too many funerals and trials involving
people killing people I care about simply because those people I cared about
were either a random target, or  victims of various kinds of bigotry, or in
the wrong place at the wrong time, or trying to be a good samaritan, or killed
by robbers, or killed by drunk drivers, or did something dumb ( had a
schoolmate that at age 17 got his girlfriend home a bit late for her curfew
and her parents had locked doors and gone to bed and she didn't have a key, so
they were trying to get into the house without waking her parents and her dad
came to the door and blew the boyfriend away with a shotgun in front of her.
Father assumed it was someone trying to break in. He could've just as easily
shot his own daughter, though. Thy kids did something dumb and one died and
other was emotionally scarred for life as a result.) Those are just the ones
that actually died.  There are plenty of similar ones where the person was
injured instead of being killed. 
   Also, nowhere in my post did I become irate and defend rude and
unmanageable children!!! I pointed out that many are not that way and that
they may have good, moral, helping-their-community reasons for being on
someone else's property and I gave many, many examples. (adults as well)
People coming on someone else's property shouldn't be endangered because of
setting foot on someone else's property,  by vicious dogs biting them or
people shooting them!!  I frankly get sick of people always putting down kids
and not ever recognizing the good ones. I thought it was horrible when the
scout we knew was viciously bitten repeatedly when just trying to collect food
for the food drive. The people had put out the food on their porch to be
picked up by us. And no they did not sue!!  Would you have faulted them if
they did sue??  
Janice Vocke
MagEBroD@aol.com