Re: [PyrNet-L] Flock Guardian Pyr Problem

["Nicola" <roustabout@bluebon.net>]

My point was that your tone in your message was very cold and harsh in
regards to dogs biting people whether provoked or not.  As I do not know
your dogs, I did not ever imply that they would do such a thing...but your
tone made it sound as if they did bite unprovoked it would be okay if the
person was friendly or not was on your property invited or not.

Just my opinion,
*****************************************************
Nicola Schaefer
roustabout@bluebon.net
Prairie Lea, Texas
Home of:  Roustabout Australian Shepherds...
Angel, Anya, Magic, Panda, Turk, Kayla and
Casper(Pyr), Otis(Pug), and Terra(BordCollie)
webpg:    www.geocities.com/petsburgh/3178
ICQ#19107028 (just request my authorization)
*****************************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: judith diamond <pyrenees@gwi.net>
To: pyrnet-l@pyrnet.org <pyrnet-l@pyrnet.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [PyrNet-L] Flock Guardian Pyr Problem


>> Hi everyone, hi Nicola,
>
>    Like someone said "no bad dogs, just bad owners". I said that.
>Once again, as someone else stated, a truly sound guarding
>
>> dog should be able to determine if a person is a threat to its people
>> or
>> property, or just a welcomed guest or friendly visitor...
>
>    I mentioned that  also as did another.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I certainly wouldn't want a dog of mine to injure a friend or a child
>> welcomed in my home or even a friendly visitor that just stopped by to
>> ask
>> about my goats or my dogs!
>
>      Who would? I did not mention anything about the inside of my
>house.
>
>>  And to say that a child or person who wanders on
>> to your property deserves to be bitten...
>
>    All I can say is look before you leap. I very specifically went out
>of my way to indicate the word 'almost'  when I posted 'almost'
>deserves. I suggest that you reread my post. I don't mind at all that
>you disagree with me. I do mind being misquoted when you are doing it.
>
>> all I can say is...GET A GRIP!!!!!
>
>    My grip hasn't been slipping for quite some time in fact, it's
>iron-clad. I wish you wouldn't shout. It is not my wish to be remotely
>involved in a flame war.
>
>> I certainly hope that you are never in a situation where one of your
>> dogs
>> bites an innocent child!
>
>    If that very unlikely event would occur with my intelligent, brave,
>sensitive and loving pyrs, Jonah & Lexi, I would immediately suspect
>that the child had done something horrible to have provoked it. Like
>trying to kill or maim their Mommy.
>
>>
>>
>> Respect is one thing..
>
>    Again, read my post once more please. This is out of contents. I
>said that my neighbors respect my fenced in yard and the formidable of
>my pyrs. Most of them have met my babies and love them actually.
>
>> .but your response sounds more like disrespect.
>
>    Would you care to tell me in what way you think I sounded
>disrespectful? For if you don't I will never figure it out.
>
>> ..what
>> if your dogs manage to get out of your pasture?
>
>    They have! Tess got out and went on to a neighbor's unpolluted land
>and fought with his viscous Dobie. (viscous to strange dogs.)  That
>neighbor is a self admitted alcoholic  who was drunk. He threatened to
>shoot Tess. Then he threaten to shoot  me if he ever saw Tess on his
>land. Then he went to jail. Then  I dropped the charges. He's a nice guy
>when he's sober. <bg>
>
>> Pyrs are known to be escape
>> artists...I suppose then the neighbors could just shoot your dog .
>
>    Not if by law their property was not posted for trespassing  as mine
>is they  legally couldn't.
>
>> ..provoked
>> or not...kind of like an unprovoked dog biting an intruder to your
>> property...provoked or not...
>
>    Come on now. This is not an accurate way to portray the post that I
>typed on this subject. Let me try to get my point to you across this
>way. When someone goes to Mac Donald's, orders coffee.  They know before
>hand that the coffee is hot. Yet, they drink it anyway. In doing so
>they make a klutz move and spill the scalding coffee all over
>themselves. Infuriated about the situation they cast blame on Mac
>Donalds. Okay. We've all done it. But, then should they turn around and
>sue Mac Donalds for their own clumsy action. Then they win. Is there
>something wrong with the picture here?    Just at what point and in what
>situations do parents, dog owner's and all people become responsible for
>their own actions. Look! I said that my property is posted to guard my
>pyrs and the rest of my family against danger. Danger coming in or
>danger going out. Just like a swimming pool . My no trespassing signs
>are really like pool rules. Follow them or don't swim here. I have a
>fenced in area for my pyrs. Naturally, part of the reasoning of this
>fence and reason why I have one is to not allow an undisciplined,
>misbehaving or ill taught child into my yard. Just in case they would
>hurt my dogs and the dogs would retaliate. I am protected by law from
>greedy or sue crazy people, be they parents or not. Because her in Maine
>our privacy is of value to us. We have a legal recourse to protect us
>from fools such as the women who 'did' sue Mac Donald's and win.
>
>> and if just the mere presence of a person on
>> your property is enough reason to attack...
>
>    No, no a thousand times no. I did not say that.
>
>> then I guess your dog present on
>> someone else's property is reason enough to shoot...RIGHT???
>
>    Wrong! Of course!    Actually, I do not even own a gun. I was merely
>making a point in my innately dramatic way. As well as informing you of
>some of the laws in our lovely state of Maine.
>    And yet again, I never said that.
>
>>
>>
>> Just something to think about,
>
>    That's all the thinking I care to do.    I hope that if you do read
>the post again you will read it with less emotion and with an opened
>mind. I really do not think that our two opinions are as far apart as
>you may think.
>    And you know what they say about opinion's, " they are like noses
>everybody has one". <vbg>
>    I believe that part of the fun and one of the many purposes for a
>wonderful pyr list like this is to have the opportunities for healthy
>and heated debates. A good debate keep's everybody's blood pumping and
>mind soaring. I do not feel it is necessary for me to take it any
>further than that when they occur.
>    In a very real sense, we are all the same here. In that, no one is
>any better or any worse than the other. We are all individually
>important here. We all have our own precious things to give and receive
>from each other. We have pyr magic here on this list. We have pyr  love,
>experience and wisdom of the ages in our midst. There is a endless well
>of information here from both newcomer's and old timer's alike. I value
>all of you! We all have the right to be wrong and that is a good thing..
>For myself, it's not in the winning it's in the trying.
>    Perhaps the very best lesson life has taught me is not to take
>myself too damn seriously! <bg>
>    Happy pyr Holidays to all and to all a goodnight.
>    Judith, Jonah & Lexi
>
>
>
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