[PyrNet-L] If Pyrs were easy to train...

[MagEBroD@aol.com]

In a message dated 11/6/98 7:29:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,
BCavins303@aol.com writes:

<< I finally decided to answer this letter because my Uncle Dave has been
getting
 a lot of "DooDoo" just because he opened his mouth and said he had no trouble
 training our dogs.  >>

Bob,
   I never wanted to pick fights with your uncle. I was the one that said he
and his Pyrs were the exception. I still stand by that and the breed
descriptions bear this out. I never doubted him. It is just that the majority
of Pyrs you cannot sit down with and explain something to and expect they will
never disobey. If that is what works for your uncle - more power to him!! I'd
give ANYTHING to have that be the case with me and Albert! But it isn't. And
it isn't for most Pyrs. I do not think that that was something Dave should've
gotten upset about! He should have felt flattered and very thankful that he
and his Pyrs are the exceptions to the rule.  He mentioned the (TTouch)
technigue he used and I asked about it and for more details.  It doesn't sound
like a training technigue it sounds like a bonding and relaxation and massage
technigue.  It still sounds GREAT, but not for training a dog in the things we
need to train them to do and not do. 
   What people got upset about was that he made comments that made it sound
like if we have trouble training our Pyrs it is because we do not respect or
love our Pyrs enough. That is just not true!! I venture to guess if someone
said that to either of you you would get very upset, too.  I'd venture to
guess everyone on ths list loves and respects their Pyrs and that does not
mean they are a cinch to train as a result. A few may be but most are not. We
need to still hang in there and try to get them trained in good canine
citizenship and basic obedience for our sakes as well as their's.  The main
thing is that we all need to try not to make judments about others and attack
others. We can disagree with others without insulting them or saying they do
not love or respect their dogs. 
   I think it is really wonderful that your uncle has such devoted companions
in your 2 Pyrs and yourself as well. He's been through enough - he deserves a
break!!  I am continually amazed at the intuitive nature of these dogs. They
understand a lot and when the chips are down many of them really come through
like troopers and are just what the situation calls for in emergencies. While
Pyrs do well as therapy dogs they are not usually trained as service dogs for
the disabled because for a number of reasons (one of them being their
stubbornness and penchant for not wanting to please their owner and preferring
to obey in their own good time & one other being their giant size being harder
to fit in smaller places such as under restaurant tables and such)  - they are
not deemed one of the better breeds for that. So you lucked out in finding 2
Pyrs so very well-suited for that!! However that in a way is why I wanted a
giant breed dog. To eventually carry my pack for me when I go hiking. I fell
down 2 stories onto a concrete floor at my former job and suffered four
injuries to my shoulder and also the collar bone is no longer attached to my
sternum. My backpacking and rock rapelling days are over! However I feel I am
too young to give up hiking with my family and scouts. So I wanted a dog that
could eventually carry my pack for me and maybe even train to cart and help me
with gardening chores, too. (another thing I hate to give up!) However Albert
is a Pyr that is very hard to train. He is also very easily distracted by
sights and sounds and less likely to obey with distractions around. I continue
to stick with it, but it's not easy. Especially with my injuries. I cannot
have him pull on his leash and it hurts me to jerk on his leash, and I am apt
to not even be able to eat or drink for days or drive, as I cannot even lift a
glass when my injuries are really aggravated. He often refuses to jump into
the van, too, and makes me lift him which is against Dr.'s orders. (Although
if he comes to visit when I am directing a play he has NO TROUBLE jumping up
on the stage which is much higher than van floor and making it look easy, if
he sees me or my son on-stage!! Go figure!!) So it is doubly aggravating to me
when he is not cooperative. Given my injuries I probably should've held out
for a rescue Newfoundland which was what I'd been looking for in a five county
area for 10 months before I got Albert. (I'd had 2 Newfs before and they were
easy to train and wanted to please their owners. If they ever started to run
off towards the stream to swim and we yelled "No! Get back here!" they would
stop immediately and come to us right away. Since I hadn't found one in all
that time we decided to get a puppy from some friends of ours who had just had
a litter of Pyrs. I read everything in 8 books at the library on dogs and the
things I read did not dissuade me from this breed. They had no copies of books
on Pyrs at all, just books on lots of breeds. If I knew they were so different
from Newfs I probably would have held out for a Newf. But I got a Pyr pup and
immediately fell in love with him and bonded with him and I realize NOW that
when he's being stubborn and independent and uncooperative and an escape
artist , he is being true to his breed and when he is being non-aggressive and
friendly to other dogs and strangers on our property and a happy-go-lucky goof
he is being less like his breed. I try to respect him for the first ones and
love him for the others. Now that I have had Albert I dearly love having him
in my life. They have a way of really worming their way into our hearts and he
has been very successful at that!! We are all totally devoted to him and it is
so hard to stay mad at him for more than a few seconds!! We always end up
hugging him instead!! When I am hurt or sick he KNOWS and is worried and
really cares and wants to be right there helping, although his idea of helping
is not always what the Dr. ordered!! (Like the other day when he thought the
answer to my hurt back and neck was to lay on top of me and lick me
periodically!!) On hikes he likes to keep us all in sight and when I'm limping
and wincing in pain bring up the rear (knee injury) he keeps looking back at
me and will periodically stop and insist on waiting for me to catch up and
will want to lick me and won't budge until I tell him it's OK. So they often
seem to be excellent judges of when it is important for them to be there for
you. But often Pyrs are not nearly so cooperative when those kinds of
situations are not present. Maybe the fact that your uncle's situation is
always obviously one of those where it would require the dogs to be there for
him has something to do with how they act. Whatever the reason, I am thankful
that he has them and you and it has worked out so well. Sounds like a perfect
match!! 
   It is hard to put into words how special these Pyrs are and how, even if we
have the unvcooperative ones, we still love them and can't picture our lives
without them!!  Boy! Are they good at getting to you!! Hard to picture my life
without Albert now!! Our training may not always go smoothly, but there's
never a dull moment around here - that's for sure!! Albert and his antics are
famous the world over now!!  And somehow I fear the day may come when he has
matured  & when we will miss all his antics!!! 
   Anyway,  hopefully we can go on from here and have a fresh start list-wise.
I was trying very hard not to ever be rude and if I failed somehow I
apologize. I could not in good conscience let the comments about those of us
with hard to train Pyrs not loving or rspecting or playing with them enough go
by, though. There may be new people lurking on the list and I didn't want them
to think that that was what we ALL think!! I think everyone and everyone's
Pyrs are a bit different, yet they all share some certain Pyr qualities. Maybe
not always the same Pyr qualities, but some of them. Some Pyrs are exactly
suited to the breed descriptions and then there are others that differ in
various ways. Albert has his ways that he is different and yours have their
ways they are different and Shyllo has his ways he is different and so on and
so forth. Let's just celebrate those differences and yet realize they are
differences. That way we don't lead people astray. I love to talk to people
about Albert, but I also am quick to point out that he is not the norm in some
ways. I share the ways he is and the ways he isn't, so that they will know
what to expect if they are thinking of getting a Pyr.  I'm afraid if everyone
thought Pyrs were easy to train and all you had to do was sit them down and
talk things over with them and love and respect and massage them , that people
would flock to this breed and be very disappointed if they got a Pyr like most
Pyrs are and unfortunately many would end up in rescue as a result.  Just a
caution I felt important to share.

:)  &  :)```   (me grinning & Albert grinning & drooling!)

Janice Vocke 
MagEBroD@aol.com
Shelton, WA.