At 07:45 PM 12/4/2000, you wrote: >granted, they're based on the freemasons, which it's self is founded on >pagan (or at least secular) principals (from what I understand, and i'm >woefully under informed), but the point I was trying to make was that >"Saints" do have a place in Christianity. Freemasons...well...yes and no. Its complicated and depends on who you believe. ;-) ] Da Baron