[HOE] Explosions are their own reward, or something.

[Kirt Dankmyer aka Loki <xiombarg@earthlink.net>]

>         I don't know, I guess I've never been much for number-crunching, so maybe I
> dismissed the new system a little too easily.  But I'm curious, in what way
> do you consider it cinematic?  I simply found it confusing.  That and I had
> some really good luck with the old system, (two members got blown off of a
> two story high railing, and another time one of them tried to ‘minimize' the
> damage he took by throwing a grenade into a room full of Zombies and
> slamming the door shut.)

Hey, I've never said that people can't use the old system if they want. If it
fits your play style, more power to you.

How is it cinematic? Well, in many cases (especially Doomie-based ones) one
gets to no damage much quicker under the new system!. Let's say you have a
10d20 explosion with a blast radius of 10, and you're 60 yards away. Old
system: Take 9d4 massive damage. New system: Take 10d20 to 1d6-6 locations...
Hmmm. 1d6-6? Well, you've just gotten lucky, brainer. No damage at all. This
fits very well with the *cinematic* image of a hero running away from an
explosion and getting away unscathed... unlike the old system. And on the
flipside, it guaranteed people didn't just sit on a nuclear furnace because
they could, which isn't cinematic, it's cartoony, as I've said.

Also, there is a basic fallacy here: people being able to survive the
impossible = cinematic. Oh, no. Cinema bends reality, it doesn't break it,
except in the most important moments, and that's what Fate Chips are for. And
contrary to what people are saying, more lethal combat is just as cinematic as
less lethal combat. To see what I mean, watch any Hong Kong action flick and
tell me that deadly combat isn't cinematic.

I'll also repeat myself: The new rules are still a lot less lethal than
reality. The average PC can survive holding a few sticks of dynamite to his
chest, even under the new explosions system. The average human in the real
world has a lot less of a chance.

>          My point is, that's what I consider cinematic.  I mean it was both fun and
> clever, and my posse gained a healthy respect for explosions.  Besides, they
> still had to shell out the chips, and isn't the point?

Well, if they had a respect for explosions under the old system, I admire your
luck, and more power to you. I haven't seen that with any of the groups I've
dealt with, and I get the impression that I'm not alone, or else Hopler
wouldn't have changed the rule. Go figure.

And the point isn't to make the player shell out chips. The point is, like
most things in the Deadlands universe: Fear. Under the old system, with the
people I've played with, explosions were not feared.

>         Maybe I'm a stickler, but I don't think we could've had that kind o' fun if
> I would've busily been number-crunching while the posse was getting blown
> through the air.  I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid,)
> and quite frankly, I think the new system is too complicated and ruins the
> flow of the game.

Well, if you find it more complicated, well, then it is. For you. Speaking as
someone who prefers more minimalist systems, I didn't find it more
complicated. In fact, if the posse is more spread out, it's less complicated.

Let's use an example. Sheol, Shrink, and Big Red are out patrolling the
peremiter of their camp, when a Combine Junker starts to shell them. A shell
goes off right next to Big Red. Shrink is 40 feet away, and Sheol is 20 feet
away. The shell does, say, 5d10 damage, with a blast radius of 20.

Old system: Big Red takes 5d10 massive damage. Shrink takes 5d6. Sheol takes
5d8. Hmmm, that's a lot of diffrent dice to reach for, not to mention that I
have to roll a hit location for *every* wound, and I have to remember the
special rule for massive damage and armor... And if people are wearing a lot
of light armor, I'm gonna be rolling a d6 an awful lot, as opposed to, say,
once per person...

New system: I know what's about to happen, so I have my 10d10 ready. No matter
where they are on the field -- Shrink could be 100 feet away -- and I'm still
rolling the same 10d10. Sure, I may have to roll them a lot, but I can do it
rapid-fire as I'm used to the standard Deadlands damage system, which this
uses, unlike the above, and I can just keep picking up and throwing the same
dice. The only variable is the number of times I have to do that, and
depending on what I roll, that doesn't have to be a lot. Big Red takes an
average of 3 hits (average of 1d6), Shrink takes an average of one (1d6-2),
and Sheol takes an average of two (1d6-1). That wasn't hard, and I don't have
to drop die types (which always slows me down) just because my posse did the
intelligent thing and spread out.

It may come down to me being wired different in the head, but have any of you
TRIED the new Massive Damage system, or did you just go "Ew!" and throw up
your hands? Speaking as someone who's tried both I think you'll find it's
easier than it seems. Some things just *seem* complicated when they're
explained, but are easy to do in practice.

>         Show me a simple, (cinematic) way to do it, and I'll be the next guy to
> jump on your bandwagon.

See discussion above. Have you even tried the new system in practice? I have.
It's easier than it looks.

On the other hand, I've already said I seem to have a different threshold for
'complicated' than most people who are arguing with me. To me, the new system
is simple, because it is less different than the normal damage system -- less
of a special case. The old massive damage rules almost seemed to come from a
different game, to me, and no matter how simple it was, it was yet another
thing to remember.
	-Loki