Re: [HoE] Black Hat Adventure

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

>    I've never been totally clear, and it seems to be a matter of
>individual
>    interpretation, but...are regular Templars supposed to be sympathetic
>and/or
>    provide aid to folks who support Throckmorton in his efforts?>>
>
>Not people who actively SUPPORT the Combine, but I could see them
>helping good people that were forced into it, such as in this
>situation.  They wouldn't expect the townspeople to march into suicide,
>which is what resisting the Combine would be.
>

My concern here is _could_ a Templar PC interpret it in that matter?  
Concerning various discussions we've had here before about Templars 
"failing" their duty, not doing exactly what Simon feels they should do, 
getting blackballed and/or kicked out, etc., the general impression I got 
was that folks feel that Templars should have a (relatively) wide latitude 
in such matters, and that Simon trusts his Templars' judgement.

What if the PC Templar thinks the townsfolk _aren't_ worthy of saving 
because they rolled over to the Combine?  This may not be a "reasonable" 
attitude.  Then again, not all PCs act in a totally reasonable manner, 
either.  :)

It's important here because the hook rests on this point.

>    If the adventure uses pre-designed characters, you could simply not
>include
>    a Templar.>>

>My group of pre-gen characters had a Templar.  I figured it would make
>good role-playing material to MAKE him work with the Anti's (that, and I
>figured it'd make for a good fight after the people were saved).
>

Again, just speaking from personal experience, but trying to MAKE a player 
do something they feel is out of character can be an iffy proposition.  You 
as Marshal can, of course, _tell_ the player what his character thinks.  
That doesn't always work, though.

Basically, you're hoping that the player feels his character would work with 
the Anti-Templars (and _has_ to work with them).  In a one-shot, this could 
work - depends on how much the player running the Templar has "developed" 
his new Templar character sheet in his head.  Alternately, you could write 
the background of the character as well as the stats, and maybe give him 
something that would not have him hate the ATs quite so much.

A single Big Britches hindrance could mess that all up.  And don't all 
Templars have that?  :)  Again, in a one-shot you can avoid this.  In a 
campaign, you would know if your group's Templar(s) would be okay with that. 
  In a published adventure, it could leave a Marshal up a creek without a 
paddle if it's the basis for the "hook" which brings the PCs into the 
adventure.

><< First of all, I'm not clear here. Who was driving the caravan? Black
>Hats
>    (who were killed by the Anti-Templars)? The village people (then why
>are
>    the vehicles wrecked?)? Where did the vehicles come from? Later you
>seem
>    to make it clear they are BH vehicles with BH drivers. But that's
>another
>    problem...>>
>There were a couple BH military vehicles, which got wrecked.  A few of
>the cars belonged to the town, but may or may not have been driven by
>BH's.  Presumably, the Anti-Templars wouldn't have killed civillian
>drivers if they could help it, but they're also not the most careful
>people in the world.  A couple of the civvie vehicles would probably
>have survived, as dragging the stuff to Denver would be tough.
>The pre-gen group, again, had an ex-Black Hat as a member, so he would
>be driving the one rigged car.
>

Ah, you didn't mention the ex-Black Hatter as a PC.  It's a key part of your 
adventure, so that works.  I don't recall, but do ex-Black Hats have 
_active_ chips?  I thought they forego the benefits of using BH-approved 
stuff in exchange for...well, not running the risk of having their brains 
blown out there ears.  :)

><< Again, the presence of a Templar could be upsetting here. Again, it's
>a
>    discretionary thing, but some Templars seem to take the offenses of
>the
>    anti-Templars rather...personally. And violently. Sure, you or I
>might not
>    think that, but the question would be how any given player Templar
>might
>    discretionarily choose to view the Anti-Templars.>>
>Re: Above.  Anyone should react poorly to people who hunt them for a
>living, even if they happened to just do something with a good
>motivation.
>

Sure.  But you're gambling that the player running the Templar will do two 
things that you want him to do, _and_ that are key to the "hook".  A) Help 
the village, and B) feel he needs to team up with Anti-Templars to do this.

A strikes me as something is likely to occur.  But B rests heavily on a 
number of factors.  For instance, at least to me (see below) the adventure 
objective isn't clear.  If it isn't clear, then the Templar may not see that 
he _needs_ the Anti-Templars.  In fact, depending on the objective, the ATs 
may be a hindrance.

Again, "reasonably" a Templar will do A and B if you set it up right.  On 
the other hand, when it comes to PCs acting "reasonable," my advice is - 
always bet on black.  :)

><< Kind of a downer non-heroic ending. Sounds like the heroes need to
>find a
>    way to get the caravan to Denver..._but_ then arrange for a way to
>destroy
>    it that doesn't incriminate the villagers. And possibly make the
>Combine
>    thinks the village is wiped out. Without blowing their covers.
>
>    Was this the direction you were thinking of going with it...?>>
>Well, Wasted West seems to imply that Throckmorton doesn't care why the
>caravan is wrecked, he just cant risk losing face (of course, he's lost
>a good portion of it already...)

I understand that.  My question here is, looking at it as a prospective 
player who has now seen your "hook" is, simply put:  What do I do next?

The objective isn't clear for me.  So we take all the villagers' stuff and 
give it to Throckmorton.  Ummm, isn't that doing his job for him?  Sure it 
keeps them from getting wiped out by the BHs.  Of course, they may starve 
(are BH patrols really that smart that they can take _precisely_ what they 
need?  Hopefully some of them were farm science majors before the bombs 
dropped).

And what happens the next time the villagers get hit up for supplies by 
Throckmorton & Co.?  As a player, I'd be wondering:  Do we have to shepherd 
these guys every 6 months/year/whatever?

Plus, I've got to figure Throckmorton has _some_ kind of security in or near 
Denver that my group is going to have to pass through.  Our only "key" is a 
guy with an active self-destruct chip in his head.  Uh-oh.  :)

I gotta figure that somewhere along the line Throckmorton is going to see 
through our BH disguise.  If nothing else, it'll be a boring adventure if 
our mission goes with Mission: Impossible-like smoothness (and the 
Anti-Templars don't sound like the guys to take on such a mission anyway!).  
Once Throckmorton scopes us out, it doesn't matter how he got the supplies - 
he's going to think we intercepted and killed a BH patrol and (as you note) 
take it out on the villagers.

So I must admit, with the details provided, I'm a little unclear what we the 
players can do here.

Personally and IMO and all, with the mission objectives as presented, at 
this point I would totally skip taking the supplies to Denver, kill the 
Anti-Templars, and frame them to make it seem like the village and the Black 
Hats were _all_ destroyed by the Anti-Templars.  Then evac the villagers to 
another location.

Anti-Templars dead, villagers out of Throckmorton's grasp, no supplies for 
the Combine.

Taking the supplies to Throckmorton with the ATs just means A) the Combine 
"wins," B) we take a pretty good risk of being spotted and found out in 
which case the village is still in trouble and we're too...well, dead to 
protect them, and C) the villagers are going to get hit up next supply 
season.

Presumably the objective of this adventure is not to destroy Denver.  If so, 
the village impetus is probably not needed.

Or to put it another way, I guess here would be my question:  You've 
described the "hook" for your adventure.  Now, what do you anticipate is the 
"climax"?  And how do you intend for the players to get from A to B?

One other suggestion.  Running NPCs is a major _pain_.  For one thing, 
they've got no chips to prevent damage, so they tend to die fairly quick.  
You can bet the players aren't going to lend them chips.  Or are you the 
Marshal going to spend your chips to save them?  That means less chips for 
you to use to help your bad guys.

(Maybe some folks have a system where an NPC or NPC group have a separate, 
third set of chips.  That still works, although it's a lesser headache to 
track.)

Plus you the Marshal will be doing a _lot_ more die rolling.  Lord only 
knows Deadlands/HoE is roll-heavy enough.  You'll be sitting there rolling 
for your Anti-Templars, and your bad guys, and...well, you get the idea.

Plus, they've got Templar powers.  Okay, not the most strenuous powers to 
run in the world compared to a Syker or Doomsayer (no strain to track!), but 
as a Marshall you'll either have to keep track of all of them, or give all 
the ATs the exact same powers.  Which make them kind of a faceless horde 
rather than individual characters.

Personally, I'd drop the ATs entirely.  Either that, or kill them off early 
(which you kind of hint might happen anyway).  Unless you're really 
comfortable with running big bands of PC-friendly NPCs, it seems to me 
you're asking for a major headache and you'll be using up more time in a 
limited-time convention-type setting.

Hope that all helps.



>--
From Whom it May Concern,
>Rich Ranallo, The Man They Couldn't Hang


---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

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