[HoE] [HOPLER] Re: Armor Value Versus Hand To Hand

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

>I don't have my main book near me and I had a question.  How do Armor 
>Values
>work against Hand to Hand.  I know they Reduce the Weapons die type like
>normal but What about the Strength Bonus.  Is reduced or not.  I can't
>rember if this is in the main book or not but currently I'm 200 miles away
>from it so theres know way for me to look it up.
>
>Dan Sulin

*****

Good question.  Let me look it up here...pg. 97:  "Against hand-to-hand 
attacks, reduce the weapon's die type (not the character's Strength) when 
determining armor effects.  If a character or critter isn't using a weapon, 
reduce the damage dice of its claws or teeth just as if they were weapons.

In the rare cases a critter has no additional damage dice besides its 
strength, it simply cannot penetrate anything with an armor value of 1 or 
more.  Occasinally, the Marshal may rule big creatures can cause nonlethal 
brawlin' damage, even to heavily armored targets."

*****

Unfortunately, this is a little...vague.  We are told what happens to 
critters without additional damage dice besides strength, but not about 
non-critters (you know, most PCs, although there are exceptions...  ;) ).  
We could, of course, assume it works the same way for unarmed PCs.  But you 
know what they say about assuming...

It also doesn't say here what happens if the damage dice of the weapon being 
used is reduced to 0.  One way to read it would be to assume that no matter 
what, the HTH fighter still gets his strength.  This could get a bit silly 
(thinks of a viridian goliath unable to pound through a tank, but then 
snatching up a dagger and being able to direct his full strength against it, 
even though the dagger does no damage).

The other way would be to figure that any weapon reduced to 0 damage by 
armor means that a PC is considered to be a critter with no additional 
damage besides its strength type (which in a literal kind of way, is 
absolutely true), and assume they can't do any damage using their Strength.

The problem with that is that basically there is no "normal" Speed 1 weapon 
that will get through Armor 4 or higher.  A Great Axe is the only listed 
weapon you can do that with, although it will (presumably) fail against 
Armor 5.  And if there is no such weapon, than HTH fighters are either 
useless against anything with Armor 4+, or better start looking up their 
local Junker buddies, or better hope the Marshal is feeling generous and 
starts creating and "handing out" AP weaponry from the pre-war years.

(Just as a note, other than for style, why would you ever take a Sword over 
a Battle Axe?  One better Defensive Bonus, same damage of 2d8+STR, Spd 1 
over 2...hmmm.)

So...I don't know.  John would probably have to answer that, if he hasn't 
already somewhere or another.

The whole armor thing may not seem that significant in Deadlands (where 
armor is relatively few and far between).  But once you get into HoE, and 
Battlesuits, and Cyborgs, and Lurkers, and stuff, it becomes a much greater 
factor...

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---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

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