Re: [HoE] Junker/Armor ?

["Steve Crow" <crow_steve@hotmail.com>]

> > Has anyone noticed this?  Or is there a calculation or three I'm 
>missing?  I
> > seem to be following the Armor-building example on page 68 as precisely 
>as I
> > could, with the only thing changing being the size/slots of the Armor 
>based
> > on it being full-body rather than a vest.  But if I'm in error, feel 
>free to
> > point it out.
> >
> > The only real limiting factor seems to be Junk-armor "weight", but the
> > Load-carrying rules don't seem to be that harmful or restrictive to make 
>up
> > for the huge advantages of cheap, cost-effective Junk-armor.
> >
> > Any comments welcome.
>
>Your math is all correct. (As far as I can tell!) I use the slots for armor 
>not
>slots for frame system. The cheaper of the two but its more logical.  And 
>easy.
>

Actually, it should be noted that under Locomotion, slots for passenger and 
cargo _do_ require components, at least based on the calculations for Marv's 
Motorcycle.

I suppose there's a good reason why Vehicles require you to component-cost 
the dead space, and Armor doesn't, but I can't think of it at the moment...  
:)

>Yeah the stuff is cheap. Very.
>Junker devices are always something a player builds and the Marshall checks
>off. You look it over and then say "Sure." or "Okay but this needs a Target
>number to activate such and such.." Almost any Junker device is a house 
>rule
>waiting to happen. Just see the examples that Taylor, our posses junker 
>built
>here.   Several have stuff that had to be improvised. I kind of like it 
>that
>way, it allows fine tuning.
>

Sure, but you've got to have a basis for making that determination, which is 
what we've got rules and stuff for.  Clearly the costs indicated are the 
costs that Pinnacle wants, and the costs for the "baseline" HoE universe.

Plus, of course, you don't want to make the changes arbitrarily.  "Oh, yeah, 
the Armor costs $750 because...the components are more expensive!"  "Ummm, 
okay.  But then, why should I build a Junker-car because it costs so much 
more?"  "Uhhh, well, the components don't cost so much for that."  "But I 
bought them all at the same place in Junkyard at the same time!"

And so on, and so on.

I don't mind improvising, but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the armor 
discussion herein.  It seems pretty straightforward - you buy it for the 
entire body, it's AV 2.

>In my game I would use the similar rules for Deadlands armor. If you don't 
>have
>that then wing it.  Its your game you know the level of handicap you want 
>to
>impose for the suit.

Why do I want to impose _any_ level of handicap?  Granted, any Marshall has 
final discretion, but it's based on the guidelines set out by Pinnacle.  If 
they intended armor to be that cost-effective without a handicap, as the 
creators of the armor-building system they presumably know something I don't 
(thus my original question).

I mean, that's why you _buy_ rules and sourcebooks and stuff, right?  So you 
don't have to spend time coming up with handicaps and stuff for equipment 
that systems already exist for to create and purchase, so that you can do 
important stuff like run adventures and role-play.

>For example.
>The suit would cost the normal amount. Suffer normal stability checks (And 
>I
>agree they are nothing to really worry about. More on this below)
>It would impose a -2 to all Nimbleness and Quickness rolls. As well as Pace
>(Compounding its weight effect.) You could increase or decrease this as you 
>see
>fit of course.

Unfortunately, at that point _I'm_ creating the Junker rules.  Or at least a 
particular Power/subset therein.  Again, this is something I don't want to 
get into, or I wouldn't have bought The Junkman Cometh in the first place.

And all this for a problem which...I'm not totally sure is a problem.

>(BTW - This is the same as the Light Duster from S&R but I know not 
>everyone
>has access to it.)
>Plus if you like...
>Don't expect to sneak in it. You could impose whatever negative you like 
>here.

Well, I don't expect anybody to sneak in full body suits, Junk-built or 
otherwise.

>Not a big discouragement from wearing it but you know that sort of thing 
>can be
>a pain in the right situation. :) Little things like this that a regular
>manufactured suit may not encounter.
>My point is that when it comes down to it you can make the stuff more or 
>less
>expensive in terms beyond money. I have been watching over our posses 
>junker
>and every device needs to be looked over to make sure its all well and good 
>and
>not a problem waiting to happen.
>

Is Armor a problem waiting to happen?  It seems like any problems it might 
present are pretty obvious from the get-go, just as I spotted them here 
prior to my PCs actually getting to Junkyard to buy them.

>
>Oh. Normally Junker Devices only roll Stability on there first roll a day 
>or at
>least once a week.  With high Stability's I didn't go for this. In my game 
>its
>roll as Mad Scientist devices do in Deadlands. Thats each use. Each.
>Each bullet smacking against the Armor. Roll. Each shot of that nifty 
>plasma
>gun. Roll. That 20 comes up more than once when using this. If the Junker
>complains. Just point out their 32 dollar suit of level 2 armor. :)

I don't think there was really any dispute here on this issue.  Although 
that also means the 5-8s come up more than once too.  This also means that 
*sigh* there is yet _another_ die roll involved in the combat.  Roll to hit, 
roll for hit location, roll for damage, roll for Stability check of the 
armor being hit, roll for stun check, roll for amount of Wind inflicted...

>
>--
>David Heth


---

Steve Crow

"Worm Can Opener Extraordinare"

Check out my website at:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/

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