Re: [HoE] Fortitude Response Topics

[Matthew Steflik <grifflik@stny.rr.com>]

Hey folks.  Here's more feedback from my player Jesse VanValkenburg in
his own words:

In response to MG Kelly, John Goff and several others:

Thanks gang. This is more of what I was looking for in terms of
discussion.  I agree that the ability to go around corners and through
cover after some one makes the TSAR more valuable.  I did not remember
reading that part.  Some of you say "light cover" while some say
"heavy", though.  Which is it? Anyway - if it does this and still can do
the 7d10 damage, I agree. That helps offset the cost a lot. As for the 6
points in belongings that you question, yes it WAS 6. Do the math: 3 for
the gun and (at 100 per round) 3 more for 30 rounds. Not a lot of ammo -
and that was with no 5.56. I did not include that because the ammo is
common on earth.  So, thirty times in your hero's life he will get to
try the head shot and hopefully kill someone, or at least hurt them bad
enough to make all the shooting around corners pay off. I don't feel
that's a lot of ammo for a gun you brought back with almost no chance of
finding more ammo on earth. There is no reloading it, so you need to go
to a junker and have some made. That I see as being expensive. The dodge
roll can be done vs. any attack in the game also (if you have a card to
vamoose and know it is coming). I don't see the 11 roll as an aid. It
could be a hindrance if the syker rolled higher than 11 - the dodge
would be higher with any other weapon (you must get get within 4 of the
shooter's total to make him miss). If he rolled a 17 or a 21 (doable
with roll ups on d12's mainly but with even d4's it's possible) you
would need to make a dodge of 13 or 17 to have him miss your noggin. Now
with the 11 roll it becomes easier to miss. But I can handle that,
figuring it is the limit of the electronics to stay locked on.
As for the brainburn chart,  I was talking all the rolls save two can
cause damage to your noggin if you botch.  If you blow the Fortitude
roll to get there, they ALL do because you have no strain. All the
strain reduction ones say if you have no strain, the rest is taken in
d4's to the head. I do not agree that the non lethal options I suggested
are far worse than taking 1-6 d4 or 1-4 d6 or d8 or d10 or d12 as can
happen to you in the chart depending on the card pulled. I think if you
rolled dice on each of the possible options (say, ten times each) and
then look at the number of head wounds each causes, I think you would
agree that the head damage you'd take is far worse. Remember 5 head
wounds means your syker is dead, and no pull
for harrowed as your head and brain are mush. Now add to this that no
one would be doing this unless it was a life or death risk (heck, you
might have head wounds from battle already) and you see why I say its
too deadly.
I agree after the thoughts on raising the cost of Fortitude that it
would not be balanced as it was first stated, and it would be too cheap.
So, all right.  I guess you've convinced me Fortitude is OK as stated. I
still feel the brainburn chart should be modified somewhat and no one
has really explained to me why it is so deadly. The balance thing I was
taking about about it is that the junker and the doom priest do not have
as deadly set of reactions to their powers going bad. The junker pulls a
few cards, and if he pulls a joker he's in trouble with the damage to
the head. The syker if he messes up gets hurt period. The chart for
backlash for junkers is not as bad nor is the doom priest.  This is the
type of balance I'm talking about. All three deal with "similar" powers.
Junkers and sykers with the power from the hunting grounds and doom
priest the power of the atom. The comment that sykers are "over powered"
vs junkers and cyborgs i don't agree with. A junker can create weapons,
armor, and devices to make him safe. If he makes a jet pack for example
he can put him self out of range of almost every syker power and yet
build a weapon that can hit from that great range
and armor to protect him. An 8d8, AP 3 weapon with a range of 100 is
easy to make. The cost is time and effort in scrounging for parts. The
doom priest has MIRV, Nuke and Ground Zero to take out a syker in area
effects,  and with Child of the Atom and MIRV  targeting one target, it
can add up fast (but at least the ranges are the same for both character
types for the most part, so that is about even). Cyborgs however easily
can have Armor 6  and do tons of damage, never get winded, can have
harrowed powers and lets not forget the weapons and stats you can
increase with both harrowed powers and cyberware. A Cyborg with EMP and
Armor 6 walks through a Nuke and bounces the best brain blast you got -
better get close and kill it fast or run. How many brainers (other than
perhaps junkers) run around with AP 4-5 ammo?  Normals
in the game are even worse off at this.  I think if you look at power
levels it would be normals, witch, templar, syker, doom priest,
harrowed, junker,cyborg. Sykers as characters are in the middle. But I
digress - I  was not talking game balance in that way,  but rather in
cost of specialized gear, one power and the brain blast chart.  I agree
these are the Syker's "fuzzy dice", but they are also the gear that
makes sense to take if you are trying to start as a syker from Banshee -
no you don't need them, but I  think it should be balanced to be
reasonable.
Regarding playing a Syker because of BOC - VotSW - LOL! You're right! It
is! Thanks  for the laugh.
Regarding Junkers making gyro ammo AP - By the current rules, a gyrojet
is a hollow cylinder with all its fuel inside and it fragments. I would
say that you can not AP them. In real life gyrojets (recoilless rifles
are used for killing armor and mounted (or were mounted) on jeeps. They
had a thick heavy front end that was solid or in some cases filled with
explosives and the rocket fuel took up the back 2/3 of the round. Those
could and did have AP ability. They were also called rocket rifle
grenades and fired from the garand battle rifle during WWII  one at a
time with a special charge to ignite them, placing them on the end of
the barrel. Those ended up more like grenades, though different in size
and lacking in enough force to start them traveling. Our law and
armburst antitank weapons are based on that WW II tech and now so are
disposable anti tank rockets. Good thing this is not based on the real
weapons, huh?
Thanks for the chat, gang. I admit you made see Fortitude in a different
light. Thanks! The rest is getting interesting, too.
- Jesse VanValkenburg

In Response to Darrin Bright -

Darrin - It is not so much a complaint on the ruling as a question on
game balance and getting others' input. To you it was settled months
ago, but some of us were not on this list or aware of the "accumulated
rulings" then, and so to us it is new. That aside, yes, we will take the
rules changes and clarifications we like and use them, and discard those
we do not. My point is that with this ruling and the other gear
problems, this syker book, IMHO, falls short on the list as a well
thought out source book (unless John or someone else can explain to me
the need for gear for one group to be 10 to 20 times more expensive then
the normal and specialized gear of other archetype source books). That
was what I was comparing and trying to get others' outlook on. After
all, that is what these discussion lists are for if I am not mistaken.
OK, I ask and question things that I either do not understand or think
may be unbalanced. If you'd rather delete the thread of this discussion,
it is, of course, your right to do so. Hope that makes sense. I'd still
like to hear more input on this topic - keep it coming!

Have a great turkey day, gang!
-Jesse Vanvalkenburg

Matt again - I second the holiday wishes.  Matter of fact, on behalf of
the whole Binghamton, NY "Razing Arizona" posse, have a safe and happy
Thanksgiving! Later.

Matt Steflik
Master of Wahoo
Gimme Shelter - http://www.geocities.com/grifflik/