[HoE] Fortitude Ruling Response (long)[John]

[Matthew Steflik <grifflik@stny.rr.com>]

When I read the following surprising rules clarification post from John,
I sent it out to my players (several of which are playing or have played
Sykers in my campaign) to see what they thought, as we have ben using
option 1 (see below) since we began playing:

> In a message dated 9/6/99 2:32:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> sandy_addison@bc.sympatico.ca writes:
>
> << Okay I realize that this question might have been asked and
> answered a
>  long time ago but I can't find the answer that I need in any of the
>  material that I have.
>
>  Which is the correct interpreation of how the edge work?
>
>     1)A syker starts with 10 strain. He gets the foritude edge he now
> has
>  20 strain. If he exceeds the 20 strain he then starts rolling against
>
>  his vigor for potenical brainburn.
>
>     2)A syker starts with 10 strain. He gets the fortitude edge and he
> now
>  has a maxium strain of 20. However as soon as he exceeds his original
> 10
>  he must start rolling vigors rolls for brainburn, and their it no way
>
>  possible to exceed the 20 strain. >>
>
> The second option is the right one.
>
> John Hopler
> Pinnacle
>
>

One of my players that I can always count on for good rules calls (Jesse
VanValkenburg) sent me back a rather lengthy response to this ruling,
and asked if I'd share it with the list.  In my opinion he's made some
good points here.  We're looking for some discussion on this, and you
can direct any questions on Jesse's statements to me.  Without further
ado, here's what he wrote:

> Hi gang,
>
> Clarification on foritude.
>
> I am wondering why anyone would take the fortitude edge, if it works as it
> was just stated in the mail from Pinnacle. I have re-read the paragraph
> again. I get the same interpretation as our group did the first time.
> Quoting from the Syker book" A Syker can continue to use powers up to double
> his normal Strain. (straight forward statement) When a syker uses Strain
> beyond That (he goes negative), He must make a simultaneous vigor check with
> each blastin' roll.  ( this is another straight forward statement following
> the first which says he can use double his normal strain. Then states when
> he uses Strain beyond that he goes negative)
> NOW I DO NOT SEE BASED ON THIS WORDING HOW THIS CAN MEAN ANYTHING ELSE BUT
> THAT YOU GET DOUBLE YOUR STRAIN AND IF YOU ARE SILLY ENOUGH To TRY TO TAKE
> MORE STRAIN THAN THAT YOU WOULD GET HOSED AND HAVE TO MAKE THESE ROLLS. IT
> DOES NOT SAY IF YOU EXCEED YOUR ORIGINAL STRAIN, IT SAYS IF YOU GO BEYOND
> THAT, And THAT IN THE SENTENCE BEFORE IT IS DOUBLE YOUR ORIGINAL STRAIN. So
> to my thinking, it is just as it says.
> But let's just look at the brain burn chart a second and think this thru.
> If you have to make a check for each point above your starting original
> Strain and get an additive modifier as it is stated no one would ever have
> used this power on faraway. My reading of the history is they learned to do
> this to survive fights with the Skinnies. Now, if your had a rifle that would
> blow up in your hand based on shooting it a lot on the battlefield every
> time you used it more than ten times you would throw it away. The military
> would never use it and if they did you would see your 1000 troopers die
> within weeks of hard fighting where they were forced to use it or die. In
> simple terms the power is unusable if you have to make a roll like this
> every time you use it as the ruling seems to state. The chart is so bad your
> going take huge damage or die when using it. OK, so let me just list the
> chart quick:
>
> 1-4 nothing bad happens take 3d6 wind
> 5-6 the power works if he makes a second blastin roll but cost 50% more now
> the bad part if he does not have enough strain left he takes 1d4 to the head
> per point he does not have. Well that means he automatically does as his
> fortitude strain does not count as strain so he is at zero by this new
> ruling. (if you do not really double your Strain then you have 0 strain and
> are tapping the hunting grounds for more with none yourself)welcome to
> taking d4's to the head with no armor help cuz it is internal "ouch"
> 7-8 is lose wind and strain well we know the strain loss means d4's to the
> head so take your 1d6 d4's folks.
> 9-12 flaw happens this one is not that bad your GM gets to make a flaw and
> the power works, it does not say if it is a one time thing or if you are
> stuck with the flaw from then on when ever you use that power GM call i
> guess.
> 13-14 is brainburn Draw one card from the deck and take that damage to your
> head ouch that is from 1d4 to 4d12 to the head again without armor. (anyone
> else see the pattern here yet. You Use Fortitude and your are going to end
> up with a brain pain allot and yes it gets worse lol)
> 17-19 insanity this is actually not that bad  it will change a characters
> personality some but that is ok.
> 20+ (To me that means that all modifiers must be added to your
> roll cuz if not, it would be just a 20. That means, yes, the mods to your vigor
> roll (the one for each point of fortitude strain you used) adds. So for those
> of you who used a lot and got lucky before you ended up here on the chart,
> guess what? You're dead more than not cuz after the roll you're over 20.) OK now
> for this fun part. All those unfortunates to make a 20 (and as you can see it
> is not a 5% chance - it grows with your use of fortitude fast) get to make a
> opposed blastin roll ( it does not say blastin, but i would hope it is or
> your really a goner). The card is drawn in secret and you roll and the GM
> rolls you spend all your chips if you're smart (you can to make this a high
> roll cuz your dead if you lose). He then tells you if you won or not. If you
> did lucky you. You get 5 raises on your power effect this time. If you lose
> the roll you die in 5 seconds and your head explodes doing damage to your
> friends and enemies in range.
> Ok so now that we have looked at the chart from hell that will kill ya more
> than not every time you're stuck on it. I ask you why would any one take
> fortitude? It will kill your character sooner or latter depending on how
> many times you use it (and by the way, I did not even talk about the fact if
> you bust - and that is bad - you would be making two rolls on this chart if you
> blew your fortitude vigor check too). With this many chances to blow your
> character up every time you use fortitude, why not get a junker item with a
> big flaw and do tons of damage till it blows up in your face? No one in
> there right mind will spend fortitude strain for anything but life or death
> combat attacks. Can you see anyone using it for any non combat powers? I
> really can't. Now here is a real problem with faraway sykers. The main
> reason that anyone would be from faraway is as dangerous and as useless as this
> because if you do the math of the 1000 sykers there they would all be dead from
> using fortitude all the time while there. The other problem is Pinnacle
> gives you all these new toys for faraway sykers to bring back, but if you
> look at the cost of the cool gear, no starting character can get it. The cost
> is way to high. Belongin's is 1000 per point. I tried to take a tsar and some
> ammo and you can't. It takes all your points to have the 3000 gun and the
> 100 per bullet to have ammo. Meanwhile for 300 and 5 bucks per bullet you
> can do the exact same damage with a british gyro ( why spend all those
> points to have a tsar and 30 rounds (6 belongings) when for the same you get
> 1140 rounds ang your gun doing the same damage. See what I mean? It is not
> reasonable. Then there is the banshee stones at 1000 per point. Most people
> will not get one as it costs to much. Learning machines, data slugs,
> paw, and machine-head are all impossible to have so if the gang could not bring
> them back with them (and they didn't because they left almost all the gear
> behind) and the individual troopers can not afford them, why have them in the
> book? There is no way to explain them even being on earth this way so there
> is again no reason to be a faraway Syker because there is no benefit in being
> one. Your gear costs too much to have and your one ability that gives you an
> edge also will kill you in weeks if you use it. Don't get me wrong - I have
> played three sykers so far and I like them a lot but I don't see a reason for
> fortitude or the gear like it is now. If you do not belive me take a few minutes
> and roll some dice. I did and it was ugly. If you use fortitude 5 or six times
> for only one point each time, you will end up on that chart and that chart
> will kill you quick.
> I think fortitude works as the first option double the strain and if you try
> to exceed that amount you start to roll. I would even say make it cost 3 or
> even 5 that way. But as it is now with this clarification I would say it is a
> flaw to take - not an advantage.
> OK - that's my opinion on this and I hope you all can give me reasons I'm
> wrong. But I really do not see an argument that would make me see it as worth
> being from faraway now, or taking fortitude if you were from there.
> I look forward to hearing from you guys and the gang from pinnacle too. I
> really do enjoy the game and have a great time playing sykers. I just
> wanted to point out that other than the new powers the syker book did not
> have a lot to offer that was useful in the game.
>
> Jesse
>
>
I'd add the caveat that that we also liked the the background "flavor"
(units, history and such) that the book provided as well - don't think
he intended to make it sound like THAT  wasn't useful.  Well that's it
then.  Any takers?

Matt Steflik
Master of Wahoo
Gimme Shelter - http://www.geocities.com/grifflik/