RE: [DL] Quick note: Barnes & Nobles

["Mark Chiddicks" <Mark.Chiddicks@descisys.com>]

I don't think you can claim that classes and levels are  'the most popular mechanic' - they barely exist outside D&D. Now I accept thats the most popular GAME, but its a big stretch to claim that classes and levels are the REASON for its success. I think if you want to find a popular MECHANIC you have to see which new systems have done well over the years. Classes and levels featured in pretty much none of them.

To say Classes and Levels is a popular mechanic because they are part and parcel of the most popular game (and no other) is much like claiming airline food is the world's most popular type of restaurant meal because so many people eat it!

Having said that  -I'll let the subject drop

I would like to ask a question though.

To what extent has the Reckoning spread beyond the American Continent by 1877?

Is Europe 100%, 99%, 90% or less free of Abominations? Is it pretty much like 'Back East' or far less infested than any part of America?

I ask because I have a couple of people playing non American characters and I wanted to be able to judge how likely they were to believe in abominations before they meet them!


-----Original Message-----
From: Mr. Christopher McGlothlin, M.Ed. [mailto:sosentinel@adelphia.net]
Sent: Monday, 29 July 2002 3:16 p.m.
To: deadlands@gamerz.net
Subject: RE: [DL] Quick note: Barnes & Nobles


At 09:59 PM 7/28/2002, Mr. Mark Chiddicks wrote:
>Its not meant as flamebait, its just genuine incomprehension that anyone, 
>anywhere thinks character classes and levels add anything to a game.

         I take you at your word, good sir, but as someone who's been on 
this list for the last 5 years, I've seen this sort of post more than once 
previously, and it kinda ALWAYS winds up being flamebait. It also prompts 
me to write the following. Feel free to read the rest or not; I just have 
to get this off my chest.

         Chalk it up to my "genuine incomprehension", but these elements 
seem to add one thing: a heck of a lot of sales.
         They're obviously not your cup of Cheerios, but the vast majority 
of the gaming world loves these concepts. In fact, the vast majority of 
gamers always have, and seemingly always will.
         Now, I think it can be argued that classes and levels don't work 
all that well outside of heroic fantasy and superheroes, but as good a 
point as that may be, it's also OT for this list.
         There's a game world in my mind where people love classes and 
levels in their fantasy games, and then they switch to other systems and 
try new genres periodically. The key point is, this world simply does not 
exist outside my noggin.
         Here on Earth Prime, the majority of gamers are happy to stick to 
classes, levels, and fantasy, and dig in like a deer tick when the prospect 
of trying anything new is raised. That's the way it is, always has been, 
and probably always will be.
         To be sure, you can make a good living doing other things--been a 
while since Justin or any of my other nGo brothers at White Wolf were out 
in the street begging for change. Steve Long is selling those frickin' HUGE 
black books of his fast as he can print them.
         None of this has done diddly squat to dislodge classes & levels as 
far and away THE most popular game mechanic.
         I'm definitely NOT trying to start a thread here. In fact, I would 
very much like to END one--to wit, another, "You know, that dang D&D just 
ain't realistic!"
         It's a game. Lots of people love it. Most of them will love 
nothing else.
         The exception of course is the good people here, who like D20 but 
decided to give DL a shot. These are not the people who need to hear how 
"unrealistic" classes and levels are. By their very presence here, they've 
shown they have an open mind, and can see ANY system's merits and flaws.
         Let's please make this the last post ever about the D20 System 
itself*. Further discussion is off-topic, solves nothing, and alienates 
people in an already niche hobby.
         Me, I loathe fantasy in all its forms. Always have, always will. 
Bring that copy of Lord of the Rings anywhere near me and I'll beat your 
@ss to death with it, Frodo.:-) I also haven't played in a classes and 
level game in 20 years next spring, but realistic or not, that's what the 
vast majority of gamers are into.
         God bless 'em for it. It isn't my thing, but I'd rather pull the 
log from my own favorite games' eye than point out the speck in D&D3's.
         Just my CS$0.02. I now return to my current (non-D20, BTW) 
freelance project.

*--How good of a port DL D20 is, and other DL D20-specific stuff, are of 
course on topic.




Deo Vindice,
Mr. Christopher L. McGlothlin, M.Ed.

Educator & Freelance RPG Writer
Member, Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts & Design
Moderator of the New Gamers Order Listserver

"Look upon me! I'll show you the life of the mind!"
--Charlie Meadows (John Goodman), _Barton Fink_


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