Re: [DL] Ms. Brock's behaviour (OT)

[balance@tubas.net]

On Wednesday, May 8, 2002, at 01:34  AM, Marshal Brock wrote:

<Heavy snippage to follow>
> Whenever I have asked for help, I have said thank you.
> Check the archives ... in fact several times I said thank you 
> repeatedly.
> Yes I know I come across short ... why?
> Mostly because I don't have much time in my life and I am constantly 
> bothered by people "on a different list" who don't read what is being 
> said to them ... anyhow, it makes me jaded for most people.
> That's not an excuse ... it's an apology to you and all the other 
> people on this board who don't want to see this kind of "fighting".

The last thing I ever want to say to another gamer is not to game, but 
perhaps if your time is this stressed it would be wiser to put Deadlands 
on the back burner at the moment. Maybe bump your game's schedule down, 
or similar. I started running Deadlands on a monthly schedule due to my 
limited time, and only bumped it up to bi-weekly because of my desire to 
keep things moving faster and player wishes.

Ultimately, it's a choice you'll have to make.

> Please note ... I'm not above saying sorry. Something that most people 
> in these kinds of lists don't do period.

Hey, we try. I post regularly on the Games Workshop message boards, and 
am, in fact, considered a hothead whiner for my continual promotion and 
defense of my favored army (Sisters of Battle, for the record.) but, 
especially on this lsit, the attitude is somewhat different. in general, 
I consider this list, the HGML, and the Delta Green Mailing list to be 
great resources , but in different ways. The HGML (Heavy Gear Mailing 
List) is very focused, whereas the DGML tends to have a lot of 'weird 
stuff' links I enjoy even though I'm not yet running Delta Green. The 
Deadlands list is a source of great info, and the occasional input by 
either freelance PEG writers or Shane Hensley is a welcome relief. And 
so, this list tends to be a bit more restrained, with an unspoken code 
of conduct.

>> We all love Deadlands. That's why we are here: to share and enrich the
>> game and the hobby that we all love to play. I know that you are not 
>> >he only female that is on this List, nor are you the only assertive 
>> >female that is here either.
> But I am one of the minority.

Why does this matter? To be blunt, why should I treat you differently 
because you have a few different factory-installed options? Personally, 
i do try to encourage female gamers... The few I've gamed with are often 
a good counterpoint and can be a bigger aid to toning down a group of 
hack 'n' slashers than any GM efforts.

And, yes, if I learn they're single I'll begin to scope them out with 
the intention of hitting on them, but that's just normal guy behavior. 
As long as we back off when it's made clear our presence is unwanted, 
all is well.

>> We are all friends here. Or at least, we would like to think so. That's
>> why we are here. If somebody has a question, or somebody needs help 
>> >with something, we try to help them.
> That's a recreational mind set ... it's not "friendship".
> But I know where you are going with that statement.
>> Perhaps we all got off on the wrong foot.
> Perhaps.

I think it's likely...

>> I recall vividly when you first came on, and somebody tried to help 
>> >you with the Edges and Hindrance question. That somebody (and I don't 
>> >remember exactly who) accidentally called you a male. I also recall 
>> >the tirade you launched over the subject. Sure, I would hate to be 
>> >called a female, but since I know that nobody can see me on the 
>> >internet, I would understand.
> They assumed instead of simply asking first.
> And it wasn't a tirade ... really I was even mad, I can be much worse. 
> I was simply trying to break down the walls of gender bias.

Unfortunately, in this case you ended up playing into the stereotype of 
a woman who is over-sensitive about these things.  As someone else said, 
you get more flies with honey... Your tone, possibly unintentionally, 
came across as screaming instead of making a point.

>> Now, you request some character sheets. I know of a good source of
>> character sheets that are quite awesome. I think we all do. The first
>> person to respond to your e-mail misunderstood you. It happens. We are
>> all human (even if we are Marshalls). Again, you launch a tirade.
> No he didn't misunderstand, he didn't read ... and as stated above it 
> wasn't a tirade. Anyhow, that's not the issue in this email.
>> Your tone is one of aggressiveness.
> What "tone"? This is TEXT ... not VOICE ... there is ONLY the tone that 
> YOU give it. ANd clearly that is NOT the tone I gave it.

Actually, style of writing can provide a lot of tone. That's, IMHO, the 
difference between hacks like myself and good published authors.

>> You are rude, and short to people who have a great deal of information 
>> >that we are willing to share.
> Rude in your opinion, not mine.
> And yes I am usually short with people as I don't have time to 
> constantly keep rexplaining myself to people who don't read in the 
> first place.

Rude in the opinion of most of the lsit. However, i think we're willing 
to try again.

>> You have alienated Christopher (notice, I get to use his first name)
>> McGlothlin, and many of the other Listers. Even Afterburner is
>> threatening to ban you.
> Their loss then.

We'll cope. Really.

>> Believe me, this is not a "rally with your gender bias friends in a 
>> >wolf pack to put me down" We are sick of your attitude.
> I could say I'm sick of people not reading posts properly too.

So we made a mistake! Following this thread, you at one point clearly 
request the 2nd ed. sheet. Perhaps that would be a mistake on your part?

>> We should all grow up. Justin Achilli had a saying on his website
>> (apologies in advance) "Arguing on the Internet is like racing in the
>> Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard."
> Yup ... online fights like this make everyone look bad. I'm aware of 
> the circle trap.

Maybe we should all, on this topic, just back off and try again.

>> Actually, the DELETE key may be the least of your problems. I abhor
>> censorship in almost every case. We are all adult here. Seeing a
>> different point of view is useful. But having somebody so belligerent 
>> >on this friendly List is not what we want.
> Well being an adult and being mature are two very different things and 
> we all fall prey to them at times. *shrugs*

Very true!

>> The choice is yours.
> Doesn't sound like it is ... the Hangin' Judge is already at the door 
> it seems. Anyhow, clearly everyone wants an apology from me. So as I 
> said earlier I'M SORRY.

Thank you.

> But remember an arguement is a two way street. Everyone who fought back 
> with me is just as much to blame, but I myself should not have let 
> myself get pulled into it.
> Well feel free to continue without me about this, I'm going to bed.

Oh well, live and learn.
--
Brett

LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER 
MAN? (Reaper Man, Terry Pratchett)