Re: [DL] Deadlands - Flagship vs. D20

[Brett Dixon <balance@tubas.net>]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Fred Jandt wrote:
> Well, the thing is, like 'em or hate 'em D20 books
> tend to (pardon my French) make a shitload of money.
> More money than can easily be made with even the most
> successful house systems. The thing is, D20 has this
> huge fanbase to tap into. So if you are using that
> fanbase to increase the awareness of your property and
> thereby increasing its total revenue which allows you
> to create more new products for it (dual statted or
> not), I say no harm no foul. Hell, it's a great
> business move.

I'd argue against this. (though i hope Deadlands D20 is doing well)
Alliance has been dropping some D20 publishers because products don't
sell, at least int he distributor's eyes.

D20 has potential, but I know few gamers that are that attached they won't
change. Most of the gamers I know are, if they aren't running the game,
not that concerned with knowing the rules beyond the basics (die-rolling
method, basic character creation, special abilities) so the system doesn't
really matter.

I think the whole gaming industry is becoming more and more dependant on
the Fanboy types who compulsively buy every product for their favored game
lines... I know people who buy White Wolf products, even books for Hunter
that no one seems to admit liking. It's something about predictability.
You pick up a PEG book and can be confident that the quality will be
good, there will be some of the usual weird humor, and maybe a few nuggets
of info for the overall setting storyline. I am regularly trying to
convince my players to pick up the current rules... In my posse we have my
copy of the most current rules release, a copy of the first release, and a
copy of the early fixed release.

> Well, those people are just like the ones who say any
> other system is just this side of sliced bread as the
> world's greatest creation. You will also find a lot of
> the time that those same individuals tend to be sheep
> that flock to whatever system is being touted as the
> best in the industry at the moment. D20 is enjoying a
> time in the sun right now, but even though it will
> never go away entirely, it will fade eventually and
> those people who are worshipping its glory will be
> pushing another game down your throat then.

Yes. As I mention above, there's a LOT of D20 products on the shelves, and
not all of them are great. Many have limited use or are for specific
variants (for example, Star Wars D20 is not compatible with core D20
without fudging) and the majority still seem to be simply expanding the
fantasy genre instead of breaking into other genres.

Analogy: Several years ago Apple Computer toyed with licensed clones. Some
were good, some were poor. The experiment was finally ended (abruptly)
because it was found that gew licensees did what was expected and market
their boxes to markets Apple wasn't also heavily targeting. They expected
licensees to make specific machines for small business, servers, etc. but
most targetted the consumer and general-purpose line, or the high-end
graphics workstation market. This is similar to how D20 has spawned
several alternate splatbooks that really eat each other's market. The only
settings I seem to hear much about are Kenzerco's Kingdoms of Kalamar and
White Wolf's Scarred Lands (or something, I still don't hear much!)... The
other releases seem to be either established products (Deadlands, Fading
Suns) or products that review poorly. Weird Wars, a great book, is an
exception...

> And IMODO D20 is a good system. Probably one of the
> better systems out there. But is it the One System to
> Rule Them All? No. Will it ever replace the DL system
> as the best for DL? No. Simply because until the
> Deadlands crew gets to deconstruct the D20 system from
> top to bottom and build it up so that it properly
> simulates the feel of the DL universe, it won't feel
> just right. And then it probably wouldn't be D20 would
> it? ;)

Yup. I agree with this. D20 did a very good job of creating a workable,
consistent system. It's just a system that has the unfortunate curse of
attracting munchy behavior that a GM has to be aware of.

> Oh, and if you got D20 questions, shoot. I will do my
> best to answer. And if I don't answer right away it's
> because I missed the post. If after awhile nobody has
> responded, email me direct and I will see about that
> answer for ya. ;)

I've got most of the D20 core (no Monster Manual, but until I need it I
prefer not knowing the critter stats when I'm playing in a D&D campaign...
It's much more fun!) so I will be happy to help as well. I almost picked
up Deadlands D20 last night, but, well... Waste Warriors has such a
fun cover. And even though i don't run HoE I really want to get a copy of
the Templar book...

--
Brett, PEG Fanboy (Guess I need to look into therapy for this.)