Re: [DL] Butterbars? [OT?]

[<vonweitzel@bellsouth.net>]

It is not uncommon for an enlistedman to finish his degree and apply gor
OCS.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Heivilin, Jim" <banzai@missouri.edu>
To: <deadlands@gamerz.net>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: [DL] Butterbars? [OT?]


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vonweitzel@bellsouth.net [mailto:vonweitzel@bellsouth.net]
> > Subject: Re: [DL] Butterbars?
> >
> Let me toss a few facts at the situation.
>
> > A butter bar is a 2nd Lieutenant in the army, air force and
> > Marine Corps or an Ensign in the Navy.  They are the most
> > junior commissioned officer rank. 90% are fresh college
> > graduates that go through a rudimentary basic training.
> >
> The number is probably higher than that considering that the Service
> Academies are considered "college" as well.  And the only two other paths
to
> commissioning (that I'm aware of) are direct commission (only done if
> someone has a particular set of skills the service wants, for example,
> doctors, dentists and sometimes lawyers may be directly commissioned) and
> OCS (Officer Candidate School - the path he talks about below whereby an
> enlisted soldier may receive a commission).  Of course that doesn't
include
> battlefield commissions.  Many of the usual rules change in a combat zone.
>
> > Most also go through a basic career school, but not all.
> >
> In the peacetime services the number of officers who don't attend their
> services or branches Officer Basic Course (OBC) is miniscule.  Even the
> directly commissioned doctors, dentists and lawyers will go to some
course.
> Typically these range from two to eighteen months in duration depending
upon
> which branch or service you're in (for example the Engineer's Officer
Basic
> Course I went to many years ago was 18 weeks in duration, however ORWAC -
> Officer's Rotary Wing Aviator's Course - can be as long as eighteen months
> depending on which track [what aircraft you learn to fly] you're in).
>
> > They are in effect 22-24 year old inexperienced novices
> > thrown in to a position of leadership.  They are
> > responsible for and in charge of, in an infantry
> > unit, a platoon of around 30-40 enlisted men.  Lucky ones
> > will have good Sergeants take them under wing and teach
> >
> And what's more important, the lucky SMART ones will listen to these
> Sergeants.  A platoon sergeant is typically an E-7 Sergeant First Class
> (SFC) and will have between eight and twelve or fourteen years in the
> service.  By this time they've learn two major things; 1) how to do their
> job (whatever that may be, be it infantry, engineering, tanker, or
mechanic)
> and 2) how to teach young officers how to do theirs (this part usually
> happens in the last few years at the E-7 level).
>
> > them how to be good leaders, but not all are lucky.
> >
> Or not all listen to the sergeants.
>
> "Why, sir?"
> "Because I'm in charge here, sergeant!"
>
> > The other 10% are "mustangs"  former enlisted men that
> > gain their commission.  They are usually a little better off
> > and have some experience.
> >
> Usually but not always.  Some of them go to OCS because they hate their
> officers and believe they can do a better job.  If they're fortunate they
> discover the job isn't *nearly* as easy as they thought it would be and
> learn.  If not then they often make worse officers than the ROTC (Reserve
> Officer's Training Corps - what the college boys do to get commissioned)
> pukes.
>
> > The majority however do not.  It is, in effect the equivalent
> > of hiring a college kid straight in to a mid-level management
> > position with no prior experience.
> >
> Absurd.  In the military where a member of senior management, who might be
> in charge of, oh say and entire theater of conflict including several
> divisions (several thousand troops, lots of equipment), air assets
(several
> squadrons if not wings of various types of aircraft), naval assets (and I
> don't have a lot of knowledge about how the Navy is operationally
organized)
> and such (think General Schwarzkopf in Desert Storm), command of a platoon
> IS an entry level position.  Company command *might* even be considered to
> be "entry" level and you have to have three to five years time in service
to
> get there.
>
> Mid level management would be battalion command.  Typically a Lieutenant
> Colonel.  My two stick buddies from Europe (we were platoon leaders
> together) are senior majors having gone up for promotion to Lieutenant
> Colonel or approaching that.  And we were platoon leaders in Germany in
> 1986.  They both graduated from West Point in 1985.  Which means they have
> 15 years time in service now.
>
> Okay, sorry about the soap box.  I just get a little touchy when
> misinformation concerning the military crops up.  Allan, John and some
> others can verify most, if not all, of what I've said.  Although Allan has
> different opinions of an officer's worth than I do.  He must have had some
> of those not-so-good officers.
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Heivilin, System Administrator
> IAT Services, Open Systems Team
> University of Missouri at Columbia
> mailto:banzai@missouri.edu, 573-884-3898
>
>
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