Re: [DL] Martial Arts balance

[Bryce <SandChigg@rocketmail.com>]

Well, my boxer character, with no AB whatsoever was able to
single-handedly take out a group of three MAs to cover the wounded
party's retreat.  Of course, as I said, he _is_ a HTH specialist, but
he's just a regular guy.  A really fast, really strong, Brawny(tm) guy,
but a regular guy nonetheless.  So no, I don't think MAs are all that
overbalanced.

-Bryce "Now a MA/Fang-Shih is a whole other story" Perry

--- Martha Frey <natasha_corey@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Let me apologize for the angry tone this message may
> take in advance, but this is something I feel pretty
> strongly about.
> 
> Does anyone else consider the martial artists overly
> powerful, new system or old???  Let me set the stage
> here a bit, and then I'll give you my systemic
> reasons.
> 
> Maggie and her friends make it to Milwaukee to deliver
> the news of a former party member's death to his
> sister.  Now, when I think of Milwaukee, I don't think
> of martial artists, I think of breweries.  Granted,
> with Iron Dragon, I probably should have, but that's
> not the point.
> 
> The posse is in a second story hotel room planning
> their next move, when Maggie hears a groan coming from
> downstairs.  Those of you who have seen "Dead Man"
> know where my mind went; in fact, it was a group of 9
> "yeller men" beating up on a single male.  Five Geese,
> bless his Bear Totem heart, leaps out the window to
> save the guy; Alexandra, Maggie, Doctor Reed and
> Professor Jackson bolt down the stairs to join the
> fray.  Seeing as how this is a rather large Northern
> city with an anti-gun carrying ordinance, the party
> leaves the pea shooters behind.
> 
> To make a long story short, Thorn Fingers Win makes
> chop suey of Five Geese.  Marguerite the player has
> very little systemic knowledge of martial arts; we're
> not allowed to build a character with them and haven't
> read even the rules about them.  Thorn Fingers not
> only used a maneuver which, as a *vamoose*, knocked
> Five Geese on his butt, but then proceeded to use some
> lightening-looking ch'i power which did non-chippable
> damage to the tune of a Critical to the head (the GM
> admits by all rights Five Geese should have been
> dead).
> 
> This is practically ignoring four other goons who laid
> into Maggie (who had no clue that not interrupting the
> one-on-one combat between Thorn Fingers and Five Geese
> was honorable, and therefore made her the best
> target), and one who almost took off Professor
> Jackson's head with a flying kick, but who's botched
> roll and resulting broken patella will be keeping him
> quite busy.
> 
> Okay, there's the scene.  Granted, our characters are
> not supremely good at hand-to-hand combat (most of us
> have a brawlin' of 2 or 3), but Five Geese was no
> slouch with that tomahawk, and didn't land a single
> attack.
> 
> Here's my systemic problem with martial artists:
> 
> First, it's cheap and clean.  I learned from the GM
> that "martial arts" itself if a one point Edge, where
> as the Arcane Background which gives the character
> access to ch'i is the standard 3.  Here's what kicks
> me in the head: no backlash, no roll, no gear or ammo,
> no nothing: they're bare handed COMBAT MANEUVERS. 
> Once you have the basic martial art, that's it; yours
> to use as you choose.  I have to assume that, at least
> with ch'i powers, rolls are required, but like any
> good gunslinger would ramp their skill, the martial
> artist could do the same.  After reading Goff's recent
> post about the new rule system converting martial arts
> to a single ch'i skill, this just makes it worse.
> 
> Second, martial arts are only really designed to be
> countered by a fellow martial artist.  Two characters
> with martial arts makes for an interesting and
> strategic combat, as the maneuvers can often only be
> countered by other martial arts maneuvers.  You get a
> regular old brawler in there, I don't care how good
> her or she it, and they just can't compete.
> 
> Keep in mind, this is completely ignoring any mystical
> systemic knowledge that being from a culture with a
> thousand year magical tradition includes; I would
> imagine that they, like the Indians, are knowledgeable
> and adept at dealing with spiritual forces at work in
> the Weird West.
> 
> Granted, martial artists have some serious
> limitations.  They have practically no range ("Catch
> the Pearl of Death" or no), and at least as built in
> the original rules, no Dodge skill - one bullet is all
> it takes.  In addition, the tradition surrounding
> learning martial arts can severely limit their
> background and make it nearly impossible to learn new
> arts.
> 
> Here's my point, if you've suffered through this far:
> they seem unbalanced.  Systemically, they don't suffer
> the potential problems that other arcane background
> have to deal with (backlash, loss of faith, oaths to
> spirits / appeasement, ...), combined with a cheap
> start-up cost (one point of Edge).  Compare this to
> someone like Maggie who spent 8 Edge points to be good
> at what she does.  She may be good with a pair of
> pistols, but she can't vamoose to cost her opponent an
> action to get up, and she can't do non-chippable
> damage.
> 
> Comments, disagreements and illustrations to the
> contrary gladly welcomed; I'm just confused at why the
> martial artists seem to stick out so much.
> 
> Marguerite of EMGB, otherwise known as Maggie Jensen
> 
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