Re: [DL] a questioning player of mine speaks (MAJOR SPOILERS!)

["John Goff" <JohnGoff@deadlands.com>]

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>
> In HoE, the corruption system for the
> Anti-Templars makes sense.  They are channeling, directly and knowingly,
> the power of the Reckoners, which weighs heavily on the soul."
>

So are the werewolf and vampire--neither _has_ to take part in the act that
grants them Corruption. However, if they want to make use of the powers,
they do. Note that it's entirely possible to _never_ gain a single
corruption point as a lycanthrope; even a vampire can make a go of it,
although it's much tougher.

> "However what (he) simply fail (s) to see is, why the corruption system is
> necessary for These creatures, outside of pure game Balance.

I won't deny that it is part of the system. I could have used another method
to balance, but I wanted to hammer home the fact that the hero is a
_monster_.

> It does not
> work with the Metaphysic.  for example, a Huckster can freely raise a fear
> level (Nightmare Land).  a Harrowed can raise an army of Walkin' Dead
> (Unholy Host).apart from a possible Black Chip, neither type suffers a
> "corruption" type penalty, and these far outstrips what Werewolves can do,
> at least.

The Huckster analogy fails; Nightmare Realm only temporarily raises a Fear
Level for a few minutes. A werewolf's appearance is a much more lasting
event. Also, a Huckster is imposing his will on the manitou; a werewolf is
giving into the tempation of power by allowing the monster within himself to
take charge.

As to the Harrowed--they have to battle for Dominion constantly. Once they
lose that battle, they're playing for the other team as well--often faster
than any Vampire or Werewolf character ever will.

>Now take out Hucksters one moment.  Harrowed are no more human
> then Vampires or Werewolves, in fact, they are LESS so.  Unlike Vampires
> and Werewolves, who are merely supernatural, they are creatures of the
> Reckoning, and the creation of the Reckoners themselves.  If anyone should
> suffer corruption (outside Anti-Templars) THEY should.  but they do not."
>

I disagree. They're no more creatures of the Reckoning than Vampires and
Werewolves. In the DL mythology, virtually all supernaturally evil creatures
draw their power in someway from the Hunting Grounds and Reckoners. They may
not know it, but they do.

> "According to Book of the Dead, Vampires are "free willed" and have
nothing
> to do with the Reckoning or Reckoners.

I recommend a more thorough reading of the section of BotD pertaining to "On
Undead and Manitous." There, it's pretty clear that although the Reckoners
may not "create" free-willed undead like liches and vampires, they do
provide them their power. Thus, they have a lot to do with them.

Furthermore, remember that a large part of the mechanic is designed to
depict the character's _willing_ loss of control to darker urges. Once he
takes a hit off the Crackpipe of Evil (TM) one time too many, he's hooked...

> However, the system, as outlined, makes
> them out to be more in touch with the Reckoners and their evil then even
> Anti-Templars who call upon their powers as if they were Blessed!"
>

What he needs to keep in mind is that the character chooses the path of
servitude.

Also, I strongly disagree that the Anti-Templars are worse than Vampires or
Werewolves. Obviously, they are doing something right, or they'd not gain
the rewards of the regular Order. Furthermore, player characters are assumed
to be "good" Anti-Templars who believe that Simon's methods are too
judgemental and that they are using the powers of the Reckoners to defeat
the forces of darkness.

I can't see how that is any worse than a vampire character willingly
drinking human blood...Perhaps much less so, since that is actually a fairly
selfish act which only serves to maintain the abomination's own personal
existence.

> "In short what (He is) trying to say is, there is not a reason, beyond
game
> balance, for Vampires and Werewolves to suffer corruption.  it hurts the
> spirit of the game's metaphysic (which, for 3 of 5 ABs in the rulebook,
> involves using black reckoner powers anyway) and it detracts from the
> constancy.

Well, here we will have to disagree.

> If harrowed, mad Scientists, and Hucksters did not use the
> Reckoners power day in and day out against them, it could be
> understood.  however, as is, it seems to (him) to be arbitrary.

Harrowed suffer a constant battle to retain humanity, worse, IMO, than
either Vampires or Werewolves. Mad Scientists and Hucksters both suffer from
wrenching power from the manitous (backlash and dementia).

Therein is an important difference: Harrowed, Werewolves, and Vampires are
all permanently afflicted by their connection to the dark side of the
Hunting Grounds; Hucksters and Mad Scientists only occasionally tap into
that and bleed off a little power. Thus, the first group has a continual
worry, while the second group only when it actively seeks that power.

> (He)can
> see the difference between, say, Hucksters and Anti-Templars, but it seems
> to (him) to be that in the case, the Harrowed are more like the
> anti-Templars, the werewolves and vampires more like the Hucksters"
>

Again, I disagree. Werewolves, Vampires, and Harrowed are by nature
_monsters_. Anti-Templars slowly become them. Hucksters and Mad Scientists
are people with a bit of knowledge.

And, finally, it's a game--not everything is going to work for everyone,
either mechanics-wise or metaphysics-wise. If you don't like, change it or
don't use it.

;-)

John